Gun control: I just don't know what to think!

[Evariste]

Since as long as I can remember, I've had an aversion to guns.

I don't like the things. They're loud, dangerous, and (so I thought) unnecessary. Whenever people mention that they own them, I'm involuntarily repulsed.


While I still hold a personal aversion to guns, as an American, I have inherent qualms when terms like "regulation", "restriction", and "control" start being tossed around.

Gun control is one of only a handful of issues that I'm completely undecided on.

Does less guns equal less crime? Can guns work in a free society? Are they necessary for a society to be truly free?

To try out the Youtube embed, here's something by John Stossel, one of the few people in the media that I respect, giving his take.

[removeduser_487563287433]

There should be sensible restrictions on guns. I think there is far too large a proportion of people, frankly Americans that do not approach firearms with the maturity and respect that is necessary when dealing with lethal weapons.

[Mangalore]

The simple question is: What's the purpose of gun ownership?

For sports, okay, for hunting, if it is necessary for wildlife preserves, security... Uhm, somehow most other western countries do not need guns for citizens to ensure their safety.

[deRougemont]

I was raised with firearms around me as child. Naturally I think they are the keystone to American liberty. It's only when I drive through downtown Cleveland or Charlotte that I realize there really are some citizens who are not responsible enough to own them. Let's face it, we aren't the nation of English Yeoman than the founding fathers envisioned. Nevertheless, I would fight for the second amendment as much as the first; it is important for at least the core of American society to be armed not only for hunting or personal security, but as a reminder to the state that the people really do hold the ultimate authority.

[leeho730]

I agree that people are the problem.

So we have to make sure that only qualified people can get the guns who can store guns securely and can handle guns responsibly and that people around him/her such as neighbours, classmates and relatives feel safe for the owner to have guns.

And gun control does not ban people from using it for self-defence. We, in NZ, had several cases of using guns for self defence during home invasion and the gun owner was not charged.

Like Virginia shooting case, the offender shouldn't get the gun in the first place. Student arming themselves with pistols in campus is really ridiculous. Might as well arm all the teachers with pistols to make it even safer!

What kind of society is this?

I was raised with firearms around me as child. Naturally I think they are the keystone to American liberty. It's only when I drive through downtown Cleveland or Charlotte that I realize there really are some citizens who are not responsible enough to own them. Let's face it, we aren't the nation of English Yeoman than the founding fathers envisioned. Nevertheless, I would fight for the second amendment as much as the first; it is important for at least the core of American society to be armed not only for hunting or personal security, but as a reminder to the state that the people really do hold the ultimate authority.

I believe Swiss interpretation of 2nd Amendment (self-armed militia to reduce cost spent by the federal government) is what Forefathers intended, and Swiss people in general are way more disciplined in terms of use of guns, thanks to compulsory military training. Swiss as a nation practically copied US constitution and seem much better at implementing than US! Less corruption, better democracy, people have real power over the government, relatively crime-free etc etc.

Mind you, they also had a small scale civil war between lefties and righties hundreds of years ago...

[Mangalore]

I was raised with firearms around me as child. Naturally I think they are the keystone to American liberty. It's only when I drive through downtown Cleveland or Charlotte that I realize there really are some citizens who are not responsible enough to own them. Let's face it, we aren't the nation of English Yeoman than the founding fathers envisioned. Nevertheless, I would fight for the second amendment as much as the first; it is important for at least the core of American society to be armed not only for hunting or personal security, but as a reminder to the state that the people really do hold the ultimate authority.

With guns? Great... so they fate of the state lies in the hands of any idiot capable to shoot someone which... given the efficiency of today's guns is any idiot walking the streets. That guns can somehow control a government is imo a bit naive. Iraq, Afghanistan and in other regimes the possession of military grade weapons by the populace is normal, but somehow none of these regimes had any great problems beating any armed rebellions to a pulp if the need arose.

[removeduser_487563287433]

It's also a counter-productive approach because it will cause more net deaths and injuries due to accidents.

[Zinian]

Gun control is good, but too much is worse. For instance, if just one person had a CCW permit during the V Tech shootings, it would have ended MUCH faster.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Perhaps. It's speculation at best, fantasy at worst.

[leeho730]

Gun control is good, but too much is worse. For instance, if just one person had a CCW permit during the V Tech shootings, it would have ended MUCH faster.

Who knows?

Might have become a classic Western-style gun fight (mind you, Cho was also very, very well prepared), or might even have evolved as a hostage situation.

Would have been much more preventable if Cho didn't get the gun in the first place.

[Osceola]

Well Evariste, all I can say is do your own research on why liberal democrats want them banned, on who the founders of the modern concept of gun control were, on just how effective gun control really has been, and especially on how effective Clinton's famous "Assault Wweapon Ban" was, (i.e. one of the biggest wastes of money and civil liberties in American history, because asdies from cosmentically, assault weapons do not differ from semi auto hunting weapons).

Then answer me this, while you may have an aversion to them, and aversion you have just explained as more or less grounded in fear and personal dislike, you are not being forced to own one. And why should you and others like you take away a right (that many are willing to kill and die for, and indeed they should) simply because you and them are too ignorant on the issue both of guns and on the history/methods of gun control (do you believe banning a rifle simply because it has a bayonet lug on it, will stop crime?) .

And then I'm very grateful you actually posted that you dont have an opinion, because you are ignorant, instead of posting that you do have an opinion and acting like you arent ignorant.

Perhaps. It's speculation at best, fantasy at worst.

You do realise all the myriad cases of robberies, attempted murders, AND attempted massacres dont make it on national or international news right?

[jimkatalanos]

In my counrty it's illegal to own a gun. We don't have guns but we are safe.

[Chaigidel]

same as derouge I was raised with guns, I learned how to shoot when I was only 10 ( and busted my forehead open because I didnt know how to contain the recoil :O)-- I am NOT a hunter nor have I ever liked the attitude behind hunting, we have never had to use our firearms in any way (save a rare few times on animals who are dangerous, and to test them)

--but I feel guns are art, my father manufactured guns for a long time, and I spent many hours helping him tool them, and etching designs into the steel, I feel a gun is equal to any other piece of art, and I will keep collecting them until my dying day

I am very very familiar with the american gun laws and let me tell you they are not lax in the least, I have personally been involved in 3 atf visits to my home where we gave them full tours, explanations, and serials, and a full list of everything in our possession; anyone who owns a gun legally ( for the most part) will NEVER commit a crime with it.

I agree with ferrets that many people do not give the proper respect to guns that they deserve, they are tools of only one purpose, machines designed for only killing, they should never ever be in the hands of people who dont realize how dangerous they are-- but the same goes for hazzardous chemicals, cars etc.

and lastly owning a weapon is the only thing that truly makes you a citizen, whithout your own rifle you are simply a slave. :O (waiting to happen)

but like I said despite my bs reasons, I was raised with guns, I love them.

[removeduser_487563287433]

You do realise all the myriad cases of robberies, attempted murders, AND attempted massacres dont make it on national or international news right?

I assume where you're going with this is that they're all stopped by good ol' boys with guns, yee-haw.

[Chaigidel]

no but thousands of crimes are stopped by responsible citizens using firearms to protect themselves and others.

[Osceola]

I assume where you're going with this is that they're all stopped by good ol' boys with guns, yee-haw.

I'm not a ****ing redneck, I dont have a ****ing accent, I do not live by them around them or with them.

You dont wanna be ****ing stereotyped? Dont you dare do it to me.

[LoZz]

not this topic again!, last time we had 50 pages worth of it and we just went around in circles.

its a cultural thing i guess because I can never understand why some (we are talking only some here) seem to just against the slightest form of control.

i personally dont see how any normal sane person would object to the following gun controls.

no one under the age 18 is allowed to buy or own a firearm.
kids once they are 13 can use a gun under the care of an adult.

what would anyone have against that? i hear kids as young as 7 having guns!

i personally say treat a gun like a car, before you can have one you need a few lessions and a test, written and practical to prove you can be responcible before being allowed to have a gun

[Syron]

Of course there should be an age limit on gun ownership but above that i don't see how you have the right to refuse someone the right to have a gun.

[removeduser_487563287433]

I'm not a ****ing redneck, I dont have a ****ing accent, I do not live by them around them or with them.

You dont wanna be ****ing stereotyped? Dont you dare do it to me.

May I politely ask, then, if you would not mind, explaining to me what instead was the thrust of your point?

[Juggernawt]

That clip is just stupid. The problem is that there already is a massive amount of guns in the US and there's no way to get people to toss them all. Guns get people killed, no matter if they're criminals or kids. You should compare a country without a gunfanatic history with any state in the US and you'll quickly see that the crimerate and deathrate involving guns is a fraction of the rate in the US. Main difference is, as I'm sure you know, the availability of firearms, mainly handguns.