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Thread: A New Species of Humans

  1. #1
    eldaran's Avatar Speshul
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    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3948165.stm

    'Hobbit' joins human family tree

    Chris Stringer holds a cast of the 18,000-year-old hominid LB1
    Scientists have discovered a new and tiny species of human that lived in Indonesia at the same time our own ancestors were colonising the world.
    The new species - dubbed "the Hobbit" due to its small size - lived on Flores island until at least 12,000 years ago.

    The fact that little people feature in the legends of modern Flores islanders suggests we might have to take tales of Leprechauns and Yeti more seriously.

    Details of the sensational find are described in the journal Nature.

    The discovery has been hailed as one of the most significant of its type in decades.

    Australian archaeologists unearthed the bones while digging at a site called Liang Bua, one of numerous limestone caves on Flores.

    The remains of the partial skeleton were found at a depth of 5.9m. At first, the researchers thought it was the body of a child. But further investigation revealed otherwise.

    Wear on the teeth and growth lines on the skull confirm it was an adult, features of the pelvis identify it as female and a leg bone confirms that it walked upright like we do.

    "When we got the dates back from the skeleton and we found out how young it was, one anthropologist working with us said it must be wrong because it had so many archaic [primitive] traits," said co-discoverer Mike Morwood, associate professor of archaeology at the University of New England, Australia.

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    The 18,000-year-old specimen, known as Liang Bua 1 or LB1, has been assigned to a new species called Homo floresiensis. It was about one metre tall with long arms and a skull the size of a large grapefruit.

    The researchers have since found remains belonging to six other individuals from the same species.

    LB1 shared its island with a golden retriever-sized rat, giant tortoises and huge lizards - including Komodo dragons - and a pony-sized dwarf elephant called Stegodon which the "hobbits" probably hunted.

    Chris Stringer, head of human origins at London's Natural History Museum said the long arms were an intriguing feature and might even suggest H. floresiensis spent much of its time in the trees.

    "We don't know this. But if there were Komodo dragons about you might want to be up in the trees with your babies where it's safe. It's something for future research, but the fact they had long arms is at least suggestive," Professor Stringer told BBC News Online. Studies of its hands and feet, which have not yet been described, may shed light on this question, he added.

    H. floresiensis probably evolved from another species called Homo erectus, whose remains have been discovered on the Indonesian island of Java.

    Homo erectus may have arrived on Flores about one million years ago, evolving its tiny physique in the isolation provided by the island.

    What is surprising about this is that this species must have made it to Flores by boat. Yet building craft for travel on open water is traditionally thought to have been beyond the intellectual abilities of Homo erectus.

    Legendary creatures

    Even more intriguing is the fact that Flores' inhabitants have incredibly detailed legends about the existence of little people on the island they call Ebu Gogo.

    The islanders describe Ebu Gogo as being about one metre tall, hairy and prone to "murmuring" to each other in some form of language. They were also able to repeat what islanders said to them in a parrot-like fashion.

    "There have always been myths about small people - Ireland has its Leprechauns and Australia has the Yowies. I suppose there's some feeling that this is an oral history going back to the survival of these small people into recent times," said co-discoverer Peter Brown, an associate professor of archaeology at New England.

    The last evidence of this human at Liang Bua dates to just before 12,000 years ago, when a volcanic eruption snuffed out much of Flores' unique wildlife.

    Yet there are hints H. floresiensis could have lived on much later than this. The myths say Ebu Gogo were alive when Dutch explorers arrived a few hundred years ago and the very last legend featuring the mythical creatures dates to 100 years ago.

    But Henry Gee, senior editor at Nature magazine, goes further. He speculates that species like H.floresiensis might still exist, somewhere in the unexplored tropical forest of Indonesia.

    Textbook rewrite

    Professor Stringer said the find "rewrites our knowledge of human evolution." He added: "To have [this species] present 12,000 years ago is frankly astonishing."

    Homo floresiensis might have evolved its small size in response to the scarcity of resources on the island.

    "When creatures get marooned on islands they evolve in new and unpredictable courses. Some species grow very big and some species grow very small," Dr Gee explained.

    The sophistication of stone tools found with the "hobbit" has surprised some scientists given the human's small brain size of 380cc (around the same size as a chimpanzee).

    "The whole idea that you need a particular brain size to do anything intelligent is completely blown away by this find," Dr Gee commented.

    Because the remains are relatively recent and not fossilised, scientists are even hopeful they might yield DNA, which could provide an entirely new perspective on the evolution of the human lineage.



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  2. #2
    Libertus
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    I am hihgly skeptical of this find. It might be some shoot of the Chimapnzee branch, or some other Great Apes family. The body size and brain size(380 in comparison to 1600 for us!!&#33 are unbelievably small.
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    wilpuri's Avatar It Gets Worse.
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    I just saw a short thing about these guys on tellie. Interesting! Good article. It would be really interesting if it could be proven, that this species had survived the volcanic eruption, and lived on to near historic times... Anyway, good one eldaran, I was thinking of posting this as well but you beat me to it
    The common culture of a tribe is a sign of its inner cohesion. But tribes are vanishing from the modern world, as are all forms of traditional society. Customs, practices, festivals, rituals and beliefs have acquired a flut and half-hearted quality which reflects our nomadic and rootless existence, predicated as we are on the global air-waves.

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    NinjaCool's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Ah well there you have it, hobbits found :p

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    Always sceptical when a search on google for "Homo floresiensis" yields nothing but:

    No standard web pages containing all your search terms were found.

    Your search - Homo floresiensis - did not match any documents.

    Sorry, but it just screams hoax.

  6. #6

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    Fascinating article, it does raise questions about other myths though, doesn't? Hope to see them concrete their find.

    ~Hermes

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    Wow, that is interesting. The fact that they found stone tools with it is even better. Plus they found more than one, it says up "to six other individuals from the same species." is actually pretty amazing to me.

    Always sceptical when a search on google for "Homo floresiensis" yields nothing but:

    No standard web pages containing all your search terms were found.

    Your search - Homo floresiensis - did not match any documents.

    Sorry, but it just screams hoax.
    Probably because they just found it. If it is indeed the real thing you'll see stuff on it everywhere I bet.

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    eldaran's Avatar Speshul
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    Originally posted by Gadger@Oct 27 2004, 11:09 PM
    Always sceptical when a search on google for "Homo floresiensis" yields nothing
    It's a brand new discovery, that's probably why. It's been published in a reputable journal, and reported on the main evening news in the UK, and is on the website of what I suspect (from how many non-brits seems to use it) is a fairly respected organisation, namely the BBC.



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    wilpuri's Avatar It Gets Worse.
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    Yeah, I was watching the BBC World and they had a story on this. No wonder you don't find it on google yet :p

    Anyway, I can think of many explanations why they were
    King of the swingers?
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    The common culture of a tribe is a sign of its inner cohesion. But tribes are vanishing from the modern world, as are all forms of traditional society. Customs, practices, festivals, rituals and beliefs have acquired a flut and half-hearted quality which reflects our nomadic and rootless existence, predicated as we are on the global air-waves.

    ROGER SCRUTON, Modern Culture

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    therussian's Avatar Use your imagination
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    I read an article about this on CNN.com. Who knows, maybe Tolkiens imagination is reality. :w00t



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    FRODO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  12. #12

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    Now if they can only find weeeeee little villages... :cool

    "And I have felt the sudden blow of a nameless wind's cold breath,
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    -Robert E. Howard "Recompense"

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    Dammit I thought I posted to this topic. My Physical Anthropology professor covered this with us in class. He says that these "hobbits" are probably just an isolated inbred group with a VERY high incidence of microcephaly. Microcephaly is a congenital defect that causes the brain to stop growing before it even reaches chimp size (in this case anyway). Once the brain stops growing, the top of the cranium fuses making them look like a "pinhead". Also, the ear and sinus nerve holes on the skulls they found are the same size has a normal human's and not in proportion to the size of the skull, just like with microcephalics. There's more problems with the finds, but this should be enough. If anyone wants to hear more of what my prof said, let me know.

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    wilpuri's Avatar It Gets Worse.
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    Scrappy Jenks,
    by all means, explain more in depth if you can be bothered. I for one would like to hear more about your professor's opinion.
    The common culture of a tribe is a sign of its inner cohesion. But tribes are vanishing from the modern world, as are all forms of traditional society. Customs, practices, festivals, rituals and beliefs have acquired a flut and half-hearted quality which reflects our nomadic and rootless existence, predicated as we are on the global air-waves.

    ROGER SCRUTON, Modern Culture

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    My professor also says that they intentionally (for some reason, he doesnt know) didnt make a point of advertising that they busted up the cranium pretty bad while digging. AS for their small body size, he says that miniturization is a standard trend of living on an island since smaller individual resource consumption is more competetive since there are less resources, especially for a species such as humans which tend to need groups of decent size to survive. The only way to sustain such numbers of humans is through conusming less resources, hence the miniturization. The skeleton is also largely incomplete too, preventing them from being able to say definitively and without doubt that the find is NOT Homo sapiens. What else...hmmm...the small brain size is unlikely to be the result of natural hominid evolution as the trend in hominids as ALWAYS been towards larger brain size, always. Our brains are something like 3 or 4 times the size of a chimps and many times more complex whereas these creatures brains are smaller than a chimps. However, tehy were probably smarter than chimps because they probably had more complex brains as we are, allowing them to survive. It was a couple weeks ago and that is all I can remember for now. If I remember more I will post it.

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    wilpuri's Avatar It Gets Worse.
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    Fascinating. One but though. Some of the sceletons date back to pre-homo sapiens times (at least before they reached flores), and were believed to have evolved from homo erectus (IIRC). The interesting bit is, that these little buggers seemingly had mastered fire and made complicated tools and weapons the homo erectus has not been credited for. Also, if your professor is correct about the differences in brain size, stature, etc were the reason for the island circumstances and in breeding, would that not be evolution itself? If the entire population on the island shared these characteristics? Of course, if they were still able to mate with the original species, they would not be a separate species. I am just an amateur at this, so don't mind me if the ideas I'm throwing around are complete nonsense. We will have to see what further investigation turns up. One more question: why does your professor remain so sceptical about the motives of the guys who found the bones? Would they have any particular reason to want to rewrite the history of man and trick the world into believing it?
    The common culture of a tribe is a sign of its inner cohesion. But tribes are vanishing from the modern world, as are all forms of traditional society. Customs, practices, festivals, rituals and beliefs have acquired a flut and half-hearted quality which reflects our nomadic and rootless existence, predicated as we are on the global air-waves.

    ROGER SCRUTON, Modern Culture

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    Theyre not silly questions actually.
    Some of the sceletons date back to pre-homo sapiens times (at least before they reached flores), and were believed to have evolved from homo erectus (IIRC).
    Thats actually not true which is why it is so odd that they would not be Homo sapiens. Homo erectus is believed to be completely gone by the time these creatures lived with Homo sapiens as the only surviving hominid as it is today.
    The interesting bit is, that these little buggers seemingly had mastered fire and made complicated tools and weapons the homo erectus has not been credited for.
    Exactly, also indicating that these were Homo sapiens and not Homo erectus.
    Also, if your professor is correct about the differences in brain size, stature, etc were the reason for the island circumstances and in breeding, would that not be evolution itself? If the entire population on the island shared these characteristics? Of course, if they were still able to mate with the original species, they would not be a separate species.
    Youre right, I said that "natural" hominind evolution has not followed the trends shown by those specimens. It is evolution though of course. AS for whether they could breed with humans is unknown but it would seem logical that they could. If my professor is correct, then they are just short humans with a birth defect so they should be able to breed.
    why does your professor remain so sceptical about the motives of the guys who found the bones? Would they have any particular reason to want to rewrite the history of man and trick the world into believing it?
    Well, he admits that he's skeptical by nature, but with all the examples hes shown us of miscategorized specimens over the years it's not hard to see why. Many specimens have been mislabeled as new speies over the years and this would seem (in his opinion) to be one of them. As for why these scientists would intentionally mislead, I dont think they are. I think that they really want to believe that it is a new hominid. If it is, then they would be famous, have research money, be respected, basically the goals of every scientist.

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    i know this thread is old, but i just thought of something, maybe these "hobits" were the humans before us in the 6th"generation" of humans, but the illojim destroyed them and created the 7th "generation" of humans who are, us. i have a feeling nobody knows what i am talking about...

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    This isnt such a big supprise. On many islands species involve into pygmy types in order to compensate for a lack of resources. This happened to some elephants and other species. If we believe that humans reached Southeast Asia a million years ago, it would not be too supprising that they had time to develop into pygmys.

  20. #20
    Trax's Avatar It's a conspiracy!
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    For more information look at the latest National Geographic Magazine

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