What sword is that the Abyssynian Champions are using?

**Osceola** · July 08, 2007, 02:33 PM

In the Preview of Makuria, the Abyssynian Champions seem to be using huge double handed scimitars.. whats your source for that? I would greatly like to know, because I'm a member of Sword Forum International (internets oldest and largest sword collecting community) and the general concensus there is that these 2 handed scimitars didnt exist, I'd love it if their wrong and they did!

**Hounf of Culan** · July 08, 2007, 03:55 PM

Someone said they were called either a Shrotel or Lutat, I'm not sure though which one it is.

**Ahiga** · July 08, 2007, 03:59 PM

The Lutat, or Dembus, is the two handed mace. The Shotel is the curved sword of Ethiopia, I forget which side of the blade has the sharp part on.

We went with a two handed version because there was information detailing that the Ethiopians would often wield their swords without a shield but with two hands (Making one assume their swords could be wielded proficiently with two hands, and not be awkward, thus, possibly being more like a bastard sword than a short one) and that there were Ethiopians who would wield a sword with two hands and manage to kill Elephants in two or three strikes.

It did not specify whether the swords were the straight edged or the shotel version, hence why we didn't feel it was right to go wholly with one or wholly with the other, but rather had both in the same unit. Our sources were for the elephant 2 handed killers the writings of a Brit in the 1800s (If you still want it I'll try to find it again), and a wargaming site. Granted the latter is not irrevocably accurate, but they seem as much dedicated to Historical Realism as the most attempting to be historically accurate Mod is.

As for proving their existence: I'll admit it is a bit too ambiguous to prove. Personally I doubt there was no two handed curved swords, particularly in the cultures where straight edged swords may not have been the cultural norm (Like parts of Africa, Southeast Asia, East Asia)

**The Mongol** · July 08, 2007, 04:04 PM

Broken Crescent hasn't ever been Europa Barbarorum strict so some liberties were taken while creating some armour and weapons. Mostly sacrificing some tiny historical things for more, and I quote mirage, badassity.

**Osceola** · July 08, 2007, 04:45 PM

Ah, well it will be helpful information for SFI, Ahiga I'd greatly appreciate if you could find that information again?

Please and thank you!

**teh.frickin.pope** · July 08, 2007, 04:51 PM

They were apparently sharp on both sides, and were used more to reach around shields and hook people than slice or pierce, if I remember right.

**Ahiga** · July 08, 2007, 05:40 PM

http://www.alldbm.com/lists-detail.php?list=170

Abyssinan swordsmen usually used a long straight cutting sword and sometimes discarded their shields to wield them two-handed, but some instead used the enormous sickle-shaped shotel, intended to hook over an opponent’s shield. The Dembus is described as an iron mace, staff or club.

We used the Lutat as the term, as the idea originated with the Fatimid's use of Sudanese soldiers wielding two handed maces which were apparently very effective against Crusader cavalry. From what I could scrounge up, the Dembus basically sounds like the Lutat, we just decided to refer to the two handed mace as a Lutat, and a one handed mace as a Dembus.

We'll hopefully manage to represent the Lutat's effectiveness by having it lack the bracing value given to spears, but still have it gain good 'vs cavalry' bonuses, so it becomes something you want to utilize after spearmen have absorbed the initial shock of the cavalry.

I'm looking for the elephant hunter one.

Ah, here we go. It was written in colonial times, so expect some level of white man's ignorance or bigotry:

http://books.google.com/books?id=a4U...uWPKQ#PPA92,M1

Page 92. It talks about the Elephant Hunters, or Aggageers, whom 'converted' their weapons to be wielded with two hands.