Constantine I Hero or Villan

[bomberboy]

What are your views about Emperor Constantine I
I think he was an hero when it came to freeing the christians from certain doom.
But he is a villain beacuse he had his son in law and his own nephew mureded even though the former eastern roman emperor surrendered.

[Black Francis]

I am a bit of a Constantine enthusiast... but I have also read practically everything about him for academic purposes...

He is a bit of both really, as are most people.

I mean, as a man he was prone to massive Empire moving fits of anger as he was a very rash and emotional fellow, which is what got him the Empire...

If you read his edicts and letters for a while in detail you will realise that he was a semi-educated man of action wrestling with deep theological issues and complex policies... he often ends up contradicting himself and being convoluted and obtuse when he says he will be simple and to the point...

It is amusing to see his policy towards the various religious controversies (Arianism, Donatists) shift depending on who his adviser is and who sends the better phrased letters.

Don't forget he had his wife smothered in a bath and his son (Crispus) murdered... but if you read a bit about him you will see he may well have had grounds to do so... though Crispus was a mistake that the subsequent death of his wife was supposed to make amends for... and then his mothers (ST Helena) activities in the Holy Land to try to assuage some of his sin...

However, for his keen sense in battle and the way he slowly introduced Christianity into the mainstream (see his coinage) through the cunning use of being downright ambiguous at first (see the inscription on his arch and the prayer he gave to Licinius for his troops to recite). Add to this his amateurish and yet effective and cunning statesmanship and he does indeed warrant being called "The Great".

As for the impact he has had on the course of Europe through history and a variety of other fields... I think very few men come close.

[MathiasOfAthens]

He was not ****ing better than caligula but no worse than nero. He cared only bout his public image and not a damn about other peoples lives. If he had been emperor a century earlier he would have been a second tiberius.

Impact on history is for some to view as beneficial. He had great ideas for the transformation of the empire but his plans like diocletian never came into being because he failed to secure the succession of emperors. Instead the empire was ravaged by more civil wars after his death. In my opinion he failed to save the empire but gave birth to the church, which some could view as a success.
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[AnCeallach]

Did you know he had crusifiction stopped, instead he had people who were to be executed's heads suck in a big wooden "Y" were they kinda stangled I guess! Just some useless information I think I got from a horrible history book I don't think he was especially evil, I thought he was kinda good as far as Roman Emperors went. I'm not to knowlegable on Constantine anyway but I'll say hero cause I know I'd not be Christian if it weren't for him, I guess he deserves heroism for bringing the Empire to Christianity anyway.

[crazyorc]

he just did what a great politicion should do..actually, Qin Shihuang had his natual father killed and made his mother go mad and throwed his little brother, a Bastardy , to death..however, he is still considered the greatest emperor in Chinese history..

[MathiasOfAthens]

Basically he acheived power by whatever means neccessary and once he had power he appeased the masses who were undoubtly christian by this time.
Historians argue wheather constantine was christian himself. Some argue he treated the christians god as zeus or jupiter but with another name.
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[Manuel Komnenos]

He was trully great emperor, one of few that deserves the name Great. He established christianity and stopped persecutions, he moved the capital to the most strategic position in that time(one of biggest good moves in all history), to the future center of the world(and this also allowed survival of the Empire for next 1000 years). He also united the Empire, and his reign is one of last times of overall prosperity and power. His personal actions are usuall as other roman and later(but also former) rulers in all world. He discovered treason of his wife and son in law. To secure his dinasty he ordered murder of them, and now one curiosity. They were killed in old roman city - Pula(my town) in Istria, today part of Croatia. So his decisions allowed to the Empire a short part of peace and prosperity for the last time. If murder was necessary for this, it's justified. And don't forget he has great policy of religious tolerance(he even don't christianized to his deathbed). So he is is real hero, not villain.
And his city(Constantinople) is one of biggest, if not the biggest gift to the world and history in all.

[The Super Pope]

This is not an official Super Pope thread, it must be stopped!

He was a hero really. He re-unified the Empire and who nows how the world might have turned out without Christianity

[Woad-Warrier]

This is not an official Super Pope thread, it must be stopped!

He was a hero really. He re-unified the Empire and who nows how the world might have turned out without Christianity

Evil! The Olympian Gods are so much cooler!

[DisgruntledGoat]

He was such an Hero and should be included in the NBC TV series Heroes.

[Segestan]

Villain : His clever use of Christianity has for all practical purposes afflicted the world.

His clever ploy of using the ‘Labarum’ symbol as a ensign of the state thus founded the Christian Warriors of the Roman State. He treacherously reorganized the Roman World by claiming for his state the Christian ideas of righteousness, in order to reduce rebellion he divided the territory in small parcels. To aid in the administration of the government , Constantine laid out the empire into four great divisions called ‘ prefectures’, which were subdivided into three dioceses, and these again into one hundred and sixteen provinces. The purpose that constantine had in view in laying the empire out in so many small provinces was to diminish the power of the provincial governors, and thus make it impossible for them to raise successfully the standard of revolt. The records of the empire show that during the one hundred and fifty years immediately preceding the accession of Constantine , almost one hundred governors of provinces had ventured to rebel against the Imperial authority. To give further security to the throne , Constantine divided the civil and military powers, appointing two different sets of persons in each of the larger and smaller divisions of the state. The one set to represent the civil and the other the military authority. A system that the Roman world could not afford, and heavier taxation was one of the results. He also called the First Ecumenical or general council of the Church at Nicaea, a town of Asia Minor in 325 AD in an attempt to harmonize the differing sects of Christianity that had arisen, to settle the controversy between the Arians and Athanasians respecting the nature of Christ, — the former denied his equality with god the Father. Arianism was denounced , and a formula of Christian faith adopted , which is known as the Nicene Creed.
The Arians , for the record, were followers of Arius , a presbyter of Alexandria in Egypt ; the Athanasians ,of Athanasius, archdeacon and later bishop of the same city, and the champion of the orthodox or catholic view of the Trinity. The debate over the nature of Christ was centered on whether Christ was the first perfected being or was God.
Without a long essay : Constantine and his Christian cohorts polluted an otherwise peaceful and righteous religion in the name of the state. Constantine was a Dacian Emperor who was a traitor to the Imperial Faith and a clever politician who allied himself with an christian Alliance who had no longer the need of the original teachings of the Church of Christ.

In fact one of the prime motive of his establishing an Eastern Government was his lack of support at pagan Rome. But the numbers of followers were greatly expanded and control over those Christian provinces was this new Christian Emperor’s Holy Alliance.

Traitor to Rome , traitor to the Gods , emperor of the east.
“ Ah Constantine ! Of how much ill was mother,
Not thy conversion , but that marriage dower
Which the first wealthy Father took from thee! “
( Inferno XIX )

[Manuel Komnenos]

WTF!!!
Segestan, you must know that serious historian must be objective, not subjective. And if he was villain(certainly not), he only created religious tolerance. Real prosecutor of pagans was Theodosius the great. And if you has any knowledge of roman imperial history, you will know that the greatest prosecutor of christians - Diocletian divided the Empire in four prefectures, which were subdivided in dioceses. And he, not Constantine moved imperial center from Rome, established tetrarchy (first time in the imperial history). The centres were in Milan, Augusta Trevorum, Nicomedia and Thesallonica. Nicomedia, not Rome was principal center of Diocletian himself(even eastern of Byzantium-future Constantinople). Constantine united the Empire, and make it stronger, and the real reason of transfering capital to the East in newly builded Constantinople was primarily strategic, because main threat to Empire was on the eastern borders - Sassanid dinasty. Read Peter Heather book - The Fall of the Roman Empire: A New History of Rome and the Barbarians. He is greatest authority for barbarians. Rome was long before become unimportant, the expensive city in the now, backwaters of the Empire. With transfer of the capital Constantine bought 1000 more years for the Empire, which is one of great accomplishment in general world history.
So before you write some stupid hypotesis or conspiracy theories, please read few books about later Roman Empire.

[MathiasOfAthens]

He is greatest authority for barbarians. Rome was long before become unimportant, the expensive city in the now, backwaters of the Empire. With transfer of the capital Constantine bought 1000 more years for the Empire, which is one of great accomplishment in general world history.

Theres no proof on whether or not the empire survived as Byzantium for another 1000 years based soley on splitting the empire and the founding of christianity. For all we know if constantine had focused on strenghtening Italy the western roman empire could have at least survived partially intact.

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

For all we know if constantine had focused on strenghtening Italy the western roman empire could have at least survived partially intact.

Er, "strengthening Italy" how exactly?

[MathiasOfAthens]

This wasn't the fifth century. The empire hasn't witness the lost of legions under julius yet or the trouble of another civil war.
Iadmit it would be hard but if constantine could reform Rome and the succession of emperors or something with the senate, then focused on the army then perhaps over time with less civil wars the border garrisons would be better off to repel future gothic incursions and the sack of rome in 410 and 450 something.

Its not even constantine's walls that prolonged the life of constantinople they were theodosis walls and 6th century and later modifications.
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[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

This wasn't the fifth century. The empire hasn't witness the lost of legions under julius yet ...

Lost legions under "Julius"? Pardon? Who?

... or the trouble of another civil war.

The Western Empire was weakened badly by several civil wars. How, exactly, Constantine was supposed to prevent civil wars that broke out over a century after his time is a mystery to me.

Iadmit it would be hard but if constantine could reform Rome and the succession of emperors or something with the senate,

Reformed it how? Plenty of emperors had tried such reforms, but the idea that any strong man with military or political backing could make a bid for the throne if conditions were right were already well entrenched. Nothing Diocletian or Constantine tried to do could reverse this.

... then focused on the army ...

That's nicely vague. Focused on the army to achieve what, exactly?

then perhaps over time with less civil wars the border garrisons would be better off to repel future gothic incursions and the sack of rome in 410 and 450 something.

Gothic incursion etc were not the cause of the West's collapse, more like a symptom. Bolstering the frontiers doesn't help much if your economy is collapsing and you have more usurpers and rebel generals than you can handle.

The idea that Constantine could have done something to prevent the collapse of the Western Empire a century after his time is bizarre. It's like saying British Prime Minister William Gladstone should have done more to prevent the rise of Nazi Germany.

[DisgruntledGoat]

Lost legions under "Julius"? Pardon? Who?

I can only assume he means Julius Nepos.

[MathiasOfAthens]

Nothing impossible to save... I don't have all the answers... but im sure that if constantine had focused his expertise on Italy and the economy then maybe something else could have happen. That doesn't mean he shouldnt have instituted christianity or that the east would have fallen.

Julius expedition into persia perhaps cost more to the empire than an emperor's life.
Theres a thousand forums and post that talk about how the west was collapsing, economy and borders closing in on the state, but that doesn't mean the state and empire would or has to ultimately fall with it. If that means that constantine attempts to reform the west result in a further split that leaves Rome with Italy and sicily but capable of surviving into the 7th century then thats a success to me. How he reforms the state be it economic, educational, or political changes or all I don't know Im not a political genius or a 4th century roman senator or statesman so I can't pretend to know everything that could have saved the empire.

[MathiasOfAthens]

No not Nepos nepos was the last emperor who exiled himself to dalmatia. Im Talking about Julius who attempted to restore the olympian gods and led an expedition to Persia. At the time Rome was on the offensive with the strongest army in the world for the last time.
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[MathiasOfAthens]

The Emperor Julian, sorry not Julius. Died in 363 by an unknown hand at the Battle of Maranga. With his death the Persian were victorius, sadly. The crown passed to Jovian who was forced to surrender large tracts of land to the persians and only escaped out of the desert after a great lost of life among his men. He died six months later from harmful smoke from a brazier.
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