Unit proposals

[Sar1n]

Actually, there ARE spartan hoplites ingame. Tough guys, only unit with increased hitpoints that also has normal size.

BTW. I've messed with my units a bit, to rebalance the game a bit toward special units. I am playing with vanilla speeds and 2 HP, so I did a little rebalancing I thought was nescessary. Some special ranged units (Kestros, Gastraphetes, Cretans) got point or two extra attack, and double hitpoint units, that previously were only 3 hp, either got 4 hp or 3 hp and slightly increased unit size, but all also got increased cost, and 4 hp units got increased recruiting time (except Spartans, that went from 30 to 10 turns). Direct fire artiller got increased number of launchers, ballistas got 4, repeaters/scorpions 5.

If someone wants to give this a try, to help me balance it out a bit, I can upload the file. My XGM options are 2 HP, faster movement, fatigue on.

[Eohelm]

I would love to see these units in game :

I know this game likes to take a couple of historical liberties to keep things fun compared to, say, XC. I like that XGM does that. But this is, I think, a bit much. There's a certain point where a unit would just get slaugtered because it's a bit too fantasy oriented.

My two cents. If you were adamant, you could try to mod them to be Spartan "berserkers" or something. Insultingly historical inaccuracies aside, it might be a bit interesting. Give them a huge attack but near to no armor or something...

[Spike]

I know this game likes to take a couple of historical liberties to keep things fun compared to, say, XC. I like that XGM does that. But this is, I think, a bit much. There's a certain point where a unit would just get slaugtered because it's a bit too fantasy oriented.

My two cents. If you were adamant, you could try to mod them to be Spartan "berserkers" or something. Insultingly historical inaccuracies aside, it might be a bit interesting. Give them a huge attack but near to no armor or something...

the Spartans are known to have been most powerful in discipline, so berserk-type units are no-no for them....

in the other hand, 300 style hoplites seems good and 300 of them should be capable to hold thousands of other troops, maybe 50 attack, 100 defense, and 10 HP

sorry, cannot resist

[Sar1n]

Well, 300 phalanx troops CAN hold off large amount of troops attacking head-on. But a million, no way.

[Alexander212]

How bout a special Hoplite for each city-states of Greece for example:
Unit Names - AOR
Rhodian Hoplites - Rhodes
Corinthian Hoplites - Corinth

[DimeBagHo]

How bout a special Hoplite for each city-states of Greece for example:
Unit Names - AOR
Rhodian Hoplites - Rhodes
Corinthian Hoplites - Corinth

This might happen. It's something I was planning to do, so if I get the urge to add some new units then city or region specific Hoplites are quite likely to happen.

[Stath's]

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=526187

maybe you'd like to take a look at those hoplites

[Hopit]

Macedonian style pike unit for Carthage.
Polybius mentions Hannibal using pikes/sarissas against Romans.

[Sar1n]

Carthage got militia pikes I think...

[Hopit]

Carthage got militia pikes I think...

those things can't even defeat chickens
I'm talking about a late game one.

[Maraxus]

I've been doing research for a R2TW mod and I had an idea concerning Hoplites in XGM. Scholarship tends to support both the overhand and underhand grips being used by hoplites as the situation dictates. Though the underhand was more common in the Hellenistic era.

How about giving them both? Have two identical spears on the model, one primary and the other secondary, duplcate the stats in the edu. Next assign them an underhand animations for the primary and the overhand animation for the secondary. We get a Hoplite who uses both styles as the situation dictates. He uses underhand most of the time in tight formations and overhand in loose formation or on city walls. I have even noticed occasionally troops in the same unit mixing the two styles. I personally love the overhand animation but it's less historically accurate, now we can have booth and be accurate about it.

[Sar1n]

From what I know, using two melee weapons on non-phalanx foot unit is buggy.

[Maraxus]

The bug is that the hoplite switches between primary and secondary weapon randomly. I'am actually taking advantage of the bug using it to make the hoplite switch animations and not the weapon since the spear is both primary and secondary.

[DimeBagHo]

IIRC I tried this out way back when the overhand animation was first added, and it worked OK. As Maraxus says, using the same weapon with the same stats avoids most of the problems with having two melee weapons. I think the reason I decided not to do this was more about aesthetics; the way they switched between holds when marching and charging looked a bit odd.

I might try it out again and see how it goes.

[ahowl11]

I'm interested in seeing myself. Maraxus do you have this enabled in any mod that you have? If you do, could you post a screen shot? So while marching or charging, the hoplite bugs out?

[Maraxus]

I have a series of EDU's and DMB's in my data folders but no formal mods, just personal tweaks

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Though I agree with DBH, the overhand is much cooler, I have become a historical accuracy stickler. The bug is that when a sword is the backup weapon they pull it out to charge which makes no sense.

[ahowl11]

I feel as if your idea for having both overhand and underhand animations for hoplites is the best. Because if we are being historically accurate, I believe that it's the best option