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Thread: Unit proposals

  1. #1
    Zarax's Avatar Triple Chaosmaster
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    Default Unit proposals

    I'm opening a separate feature request topic specifically for units.
    Here's a generic template for your request:

    1) Unit name
    2) AOR or faction
    3) when the unit appeared or was in main use
    4) status (regular/elite)
    5) equipment (armour, weapon and shield)
    6) historical area from where the unit was recruited
    7) historical sources that mentions the use of the unit (EB unit roster is also accepted)
    8) other notes
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  2. #2
    Zarax's Avatar Triple Chaosmaster
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    Default Re: Unit proposals

    Thorakitai Argiraspidai
    Seleucid
    Used around game start, its use dwindled with seleucid power
    Elite unit among the hypaspists
    Uses special scale over chain mail armour with mail veils around the helmet, thureos, heavy javelins and spear
    Recruited from the greek population of the seleucid empire
    Can be found in the seleucid roster of EB

    It should be a top elite unit, comparable to praetorians and the spartan royal guard replacing the actual silver shield legionaries.
    http://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/un...ai_argyras.gif
    Last edited by Zarax; June 29, 2007 at 05:47 AM.
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  3. #3
    Miles
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    Default Re: Unit proposals

    Campanian Cavalry
    AOR for Campania
    Used extensively during the early years of the Roman Republic, when Capua was an "allied city".
    Capuan Nobleman made up it's ranks.
    Not sure on the exact details of the weapons, armor, etc. but do seem to recall that they were heavy cavalry....heavier than the Romans own Equites. Will do a little research and get back to ya.
    Not certain if they're on the EB unit roster, but I know they've been added to Paeninsula Italica: Radices Imperii, which can be found at http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=81291
    Would likely be an elite in the early Republican Army, and recruiting costs and upkeep should be very high, probably something like 2000/1000, so they won't be spammed.

    I'm not afraid of death...it's not being alive that scares me.

  4. #4
    Miles
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    Default Re: Unit proposals

    Italic Allied Infantry
    AOR for Southern Italia
    Used extensively during the early years of the Roman Republic, when allied cities were expected to send troops to battle Rome's foes.
    Citizens from Rome's Allies in the south made up their ranks.
    I know they're on the EB Roster.
    Should be well armed light infantry.
    The costs should probably also be high for these, as they generally only made up 1/4-1/3 of the early Republic's armies.

    I'm not afraid of death...it's not being alive that scares me.

  5. #5
    Zarax's Avatar Triple Chaosmaster
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    Default Re: Unit proposals

    Eastern heavy cavalry
    AOR in eastern areas
    Used around game start, it was a lighter and effective alternative to kataphracts
    Level 2 cav, medium/heavy but not elite
    Uses scale mail armour with helmet, round shield, javelins and axe
    Recruited from the former achmeneid population except steppe and egypt
    Can be found in various rosters of EB, should replace pontic heavies
    http://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/un...da_asabara.gif
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  6. #6
    Zarax's Avatar Triple Chaosmaster
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    Default Re: Unit proposals

    Also to be considered:
    Tarantine cavalry
    Massilian Hoplites (celto-hellenic hoplites)
    http://www.europabarbarorum.com/fact...oi_units2.html
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Unit proposals

    1.lGermanic foot nobles
    2.AOR and Germanic and as mercs in germania , gaul and even a rare one in Italy.
    3.no idea though would probably do well as a post marian .
    4.elite
    5.chain mail , spear and longsword , and round shield
    6.Germania , the border areas and probably anywhere cause many where mercenaries looking for the highest bidder .
    7. http://www.europabarbarorum.com/fact...boz_units.html
    look for germanic nobles mercs
    8.unlike other barbarian units this unit should be disciplined because there not just fighting for honor , there looking for a paycheck as well so a suicidal charge kinda prevents that.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Unit proposals

    1.) Lybian Infantry (Carthaginian Thureophoroi)
    2.) Recruitable by Carthaginians in Africa (perhaps AOR)
    3.) On from the game start
    4.) Regular
    5.) Linthorax, Spear, Thureos, Greaves, Javelins
    6.) North Africa
    7.) Carthaginian EB-Roster
    8.) These should replace the Lybian Spearmen, as, in fact, they were Carthaginian Thureophoroi

    1.) Heavy Lybian Infantry (Carthaginian Thorakitai)
    2.) Recruitable by Carthaginians in Africa
    3.) After the first Punic War
    4.) Semi-Elite
    5.) Chain Mail, Thureos, Greaves, Spear, heavy Javelins
    6.) North Africa
    7.) Carthaginian EB-Roster
    Last edited by Da Erobara; July 07, 2007 at 03:11 PM.

  9. #9
    Zarax's Avatar Triple Chaosmaster
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    Default Re: Unit proposals

    The 2nd one would be Carthaginian thorakitai...
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Unit proposals

    1.) Lusitanian Spearmen (Scortamareva )
    2.) Recruitable by Barbarians and Carthaginians in NE Iberia
    3.) On from the game start
    4.) Semi-elite
    5.) bronze breastplate, bronze montefortino helmet, Greaves, Javelins, spear, oval shield,
    6.) NW Iberia
    7.) Lusotannan EB-Roster (http://www.europabarbarorum.com/fact...nan_units.html)
    8.) There are several Lusitanian units available in EB, and I don't prefer one over another, but I think that this people deserves to be represented by a unit or two, and I like the idea of on the one hand giving the Iberians a more varied roster and on the other hand make them rely less powerful the further they get from their homeland.

    1.) Lusitanian Arms Bearers (Ambakaro)
    2.) Recruitable by Barbarians in NW Iberia
    3.) On from the game start
    4.) Elite
    5.) bronze helmet and face mask, composite armour, Greaves, Javelins, caetra, falcata
    6.) NW Iberia
    7.) Lusotannan EB-Roster (http://www.europabarbarorum.com/fact...nan_units.html)
    8.a) Small unit
    8.b) Shock infantry
    8.c) There are several Lusitanian units available in EB, and I don't prefer one over another, but I think that this people deserves to be represented by a unit or two, and I like the idea of on the one hand giving the Iberians a more varied roster and on the other hand make them rely less powerful the further they get from their homeland.

    1.) Basque Armoured Spearmen (Dosidataskeli )
    2.) Recruitable by Barbarians in in NE Iberia
    3.) From Game start
    4.) Elite
    5.) Composite scale-maille-felt armour, oval shield, Greaves, Spear, Javelins, helmet with maille veil
    6.) NE Iberia
    7.) 7.) Lusotannan EB-Roster (http://www.europabarbarorum.com/fact...nan_units.html)
    8.a) Small unit
    8.b) Shock infantry
    8.c) There are several Lusitanian units available in EB, and I don't prefer one over another, but I think that this people deserves to be represented by a unit or two, and I like the idea of on the one hand giving the Iberians a more varied roster and on the other hand make them rely less powerful the further they get from their homeland.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Unit proposals

    Not in the standard format, as they are not new units but existing ones, but can Gaul and any potential other Celtic factions, have slingers (instead of or as well as basic archers) + please re-skin the Gallic chosen swordsman (+ a general brightening up of Celtic shields w. more varied patterns wouldbe nice)

  12. #12
    DimeBagHo's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Unit proposals

    KLA and RedFox: This is just a unit proposal thread, so everyone should feel free to post whatever proposals they like. Others should feel free to post criticism or objections, but please try to keep it civil.

    BTW, I like most of the proposals so far. I'm particularly interested in suggestions for Spain and Carthage.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Unit proposals

    Quote Originally Posted by Archbaker View Post
    1.) Lusitanian Spearmen (Scortamareva )
    2.) Recruitable by Barbarians and Carthaginians in NE Iberia
    3.) On from the game start
    4.) Semi-elite
    5.) bronze breastplate, bronze montefortino helmet, Greaves, Javelins, spear, oval shield,
    6.) NW Iberia
    7.) Lusotannan EB-Roster (http://www.europabarbarorum.com/fact...nan_units.html)
    8.) There are several Lusitanian units available in EB, and I don't prefer one over another, but I think that this people deserves to be represented by a unit or two, and I like the idea of on the one hand giving the Iberians a more varied roster and on the other hand make them rely less powerful the further they get from their homeland.

    (...)

    1.) Basque Armoured Spearmen (Dosidataskeli )
    2.) Recruitable by Barbarians in in NE Iberia
    3.) From Game start
    4.) Elite
    5.) Composite scale-maille-felt armour, oval shield, Greaves, Spear, Javelins, helmet with maille veil
    6.) NE Iberia
    7.) 7.) Lusotannan EB-Roster (http://www.europabarbarorum.com/fact...nan_units.html)
    8.a) Small unit
    8.b) Shock infantry
    8.c) There are several Lusitanian units available in EB, and I don't prefer one over another, but I think that this people deserves to be represented by a unit or two, and I like the idea of on the one hand giving the Iberians a more varied roster and on the other hand make them rely less powerful the further they get from their homeland.

    Two comments to my own proposal.

    Firstly, I think Lusitanian Spearmen should be a light spear unit since Iberia already gets Heavy Spearmen. I had forgotten about that when I wrote this. A light spear unit of relatively high quality (possibly with the Bonus Against Cavalry trait) would still be very useful because of the javelins, which fit in nicely with the rest of the Iberian troops.

    Secondly, Basque Armoured Spearmen would obviously not be a Lusitanian unit. I just copied the disclaimer about Lusitania into all three descriptions by mistake.

  14. #14
    Zarax's Avatar Triple Chaosmaster
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    Default Re: Unit proposals

    Ok, I deleted all unrelated posts, please keep unit discussions at minimum and keep the model I provided in the first post
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  15. #15

    Default Re: Unit proposals

    Nubian Archers
    Ptolemies(nubia)
    Middle of game
    Elite archer unit
    wearing a cloth around waiste wielding a bow
    Nubia
    Wooden models found in archeological sites
    nubians were well known for they're archers

  16. #16

    Default Re: Unit proposals

    1) Athenean Hoplites (Greek Cities) probably 2nd best to Spartans with spears , no pikes
    2) Spartan Cavalry (heavy cavalry-kings bodyguard as in the 300 book)
    3) maybe Sparta -due to the training they had- until city can recruit spartan hoplites , relies on Sparta militia , same level as approximately armoured hoplites. these units are available from the start and sparta gets no other Greek infanrty units.

    thank you for giving us a chance to provide feedback

  17. #17
    Zarax's Avatar Triple Chaosmaster
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    Default Re: Unit proposals

    1) Athens at the time replaced the classical hoplites with the iphicrates reformed ones, but as we are giving the GCS pikemen from the start it should stay this way.

    2) Sparta historically very rarely deployed cavalry, they get the Royal Guard (best unit in the game) and spartan pikemen, that should be enough.

    3) That would be totally ahistorical and unbalancing...
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  18. #18
    DimeBagHo's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Unit proposals

    1) No one really knows what type of unit Iphicrates reformed. They might have been skirmishers - in which case his reforms produced something like the Thureophoroi, or they might have been Hoplites, in which case they produced something like a precursor of the Macedonian style Phalangite. Philip II probably got some of his ideas from Iphicrates, and he trained his infantry to fight as both skirmishers and Phalangites, so it's possible that the confusion about Iphicrates is due to the fact that he also trained his men to fight in both styles.

    In any case the Iphicratean reforms occured more than a century before the start of our game period, so his skirmishers, or hoplites, or whatever they were, would have been replaced by Thureophoroi, or Phalangites, by the game start.

    I don't know whether the Athenians still had any infantry that fought in the older hoplite style. By that time the wealthier self-armed citizens probably fought as cavalry.

    2) The Spartans were famous for their racing horses, but never for their cavalry.

    3) I am inclined to replace the Krypteia with something more realistic like Spartan Rangers. They did have excellent light infantry.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Unit proposals

    I agree, the Iphicratean reforms are somewhat contensious. Check the following link for a detailed and well argued view of the Iphicratean effect on Hellenistic infantry :

    http://www.ne.jp/asahi/luke/ueda-sar...hikrates1.html
    this article was published in Slingshot.

    However it rests on the evidence of 2 secondary sources Diodorus and Nepos who put the date of this 'revolution' at 374BC while the contemporary source Xenophon makes no mention of this change.

    An alternative view is put is offered by HW parke in "Greek Mercenary Soldiers" and puts forward a more evolutionary change citing Chabrias' use of implicitly re-armed 'peltasts' in the defence of Attica in 378 BC although Cartledge in his work on Agesilaos says they were hoplites.

    I think hoplites armed in the classical manner were still around. At Sellasia 222 BC Cleomenes' brother held the left wing with the Perioici still armed as hoplites while the Spartan phalanx in th centre was armed in the mcedonian fashion. I have found no evidence of the Athenian hoplite class converting to pikemen. i assume the zeugitae remained as heavy infantry while the hippeis fought as cavalry.

    In my view the changes were evolutionary rather than revolutionary and may well have been the product of several minds based on experiences and may well have not fully evolved until the middle of the 3rd century 245BC? when the Boeotian League adopted the sarissa for its line infantry.

    The Spartans were infamous rather than famous for cavalry recruiting them from the disenfranchised classes. Although Agesilaos is famous for training his cavalry well enough to beat the Thessalians on his way back from Asia Minor.
    In the 3rd century there was a general improvement with the recruitment of mercenaries.

    Replacing the krypteia is a good idea they never fought as a military unit, the ambushing of slaves in the dead of night was an individual matter.
    'Spartan rangers'? what are these if you mean Scyritae then I have to say that these were not available to the Spartans in this period as the Sciritis was lost after Leuctra to the Arcadians and was never, as far as I know, recovered.

  20. #20
    Zarax's Avatar Triple Chaosmaster
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    Default Re: Unit proposals

    Do we really need the krypteia or a replacement for them anyways?
    How many of them do you recruit especially considering the extensive logistical micromanagement required?
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