Part of a river causing a CTD

[Knasp]

Hi fellow mappers.

I've recently started mapping Medieval 2 and already I've run into some problems. The current problem I have is about rivers.

I know the basics for rivers such as: no square 2x2 tiles, at least one river-source and that the river can't connect to itself.

However the problem I'm having now does not apply to those terms and is extremely irritating.

All the rivers work fine except for the one river section i marked in this screen. For no reason at all the game crashes even though the map is created (unspecific error crash in the logs). But when I removed this particular section the game started up fine.


I'd appreciate any suggestions in order to solve this, thanks.

[Cururu]

Any settlements/characters close to the river or on the river?
Maybe you have a blue that is not the right RGB and you cannot see it. Usually When I had cdt it was always because of a 2x2 square I've missed.

[Knasp]

Yeah, no 2x2 tiles as far as i can see. I don't have any settlement or character there. Gonna check the colour thing but I don't think that's the problem.

[Tominokar]

Have you tried removing other rivers in that province, and seeing if it crashes? 'Cos that one extra river might be too much detail for one large province. You can solve this by simply adding another one.

[Gundug]

I can't tell for certain, just looking at the river image, but since there are no crossings in that section, is it possible that a settlement is unable to make a road to the next?

[Muizer]

yup, in Rome it is possible to somehow "choak" the map: nothing illegal on any of the maps separately, but when you combine them it crashes. You can find out if this is the case by replacing impassable ground types with passable ones on the ground types map.

[Knasp]

Hi again!
Thanks for all replies. I haven't solved my problem though. However I found something disturbing.

My Medieval 2 crashes if i make the river one pixel or more above this line:


CRASH:


I've rooted out all possible problems I could think of.
1. There are no roads going through here, I only have 1 settlement on the map.
2. The colours are at their correct values.
3. If i remove this river and add one or more, it still crashes.
4. The ground types are the same for the area.
5. The climate is the same for the area.
6. The same height in the area.

So, anyone have any ideas?

Which rules are there concerning rivers?

[Gundug]

That is a mysterious error. It's probably a useless observation, but your error zone is right in line with the merging of the branches directly to the left. You could see if that is having any effect by moving the merge point up or down. If it is, I don't know how that knowledge will be helpful though. I'm guessing you will unfortunately have to end up working around the problem unless someone knows a good technique. Out of curiosity, can you extend the far right branch above that point without an error?

[alpaca]

Well it has been proposed by Tommyknocker to change the region borders because it could be too complex for pathfinding and cause errors. I'd try that.

[Miraj]

I was getting a constant CTD adding rivers when making my map for BC. It would crash similarly when I was trying to extend one branch a bit. I solved this problem by completely removing all rivers and features (backed up the old file of course). Did all the regions then added the rivers. After that i never saw this problem again.

You say you only have one settlement on your map. I had the same thing. I think there is an issue in M2TW's engine where problems arise when you have too many rivers in one region.

So my suggestion is this:
- Do all you GT, hghts, and regions first.
- Once at least a dozen regions or more have been added then start adding rivers.

Following this largely made any rivers related CTDs dissapear. And TBH its easier to conform your rivers after adding GTs and heights, than to do rivers before hand.

[Knasp]

You know, that seems like a very logical conclusion to me. I hadn't thought about that. Silly that they've added all these limitations without giving proper error messages.

Anyway, I shall do what you suggested and hopefully it will work once everything else is done.

Thanks for all the help!

[alpaca]

That sounds like it supports the theory of provinces being too complex (possibly for the pathfinding algorithm )
I think the same problem leads to the crashes people get when they only have one region but large, complicated and not-convex-at-all landmasses.

[Miraj]

That sounds like it supports the theory of provinces being too complex (possibly for the pathfinding algorithm )
I think the same problem leads to the crashes people get when they only have one region but large, complicated and not-convex-at-all landmasses.

Yeah I think so too. I think there is an issue with having too much "stuff" in one single province. Though i actually never had any real crashes when I was doing my hghts or GTs even though I had only one province. But I think that this theory is pretty true for rivers.

[alpaca]

Yeah I think so too. I think there is an issue with having too much "stuff" in one single province. Though i actually never had any real crashes when I was doing my hghts or GTs even though I had only one province. But I think that this theory is pretty true for rivers.

Well if it actually has to do with pathfinding, height wouldn't impede it, but impassable ground would. As would rivers or coasts, in short: anything that changes the way armies have to move.

[Knasp]

As I see it, Height is only for looks.

OR does standing on high ground give you a greater line of sight?

[wilddog]

and TBH its easier to conform your rivers after adding GTs and heights, than to do rivers before hand.

I guess each to their own. I get to rough map outline first with a rough heights then I add the rivers, sort out the ground types and finally do the heights. Just adding fords to rivers allows you to overcome any rivers issues. Doing ground types and heights (other than roughly) before you do the rivers makes no sense to me.

Regions I normally add as I go along. I've never started by stripping down to 1 region only.

[Knasp]

Don't know about you but I used that BigMapLabyrinth, "the mapping base". It has worked well for me.

[alpaca]

As I see it, Height is only for looks.

OR does standing on high ground give you a greater line of sight?

Yep, it's important for your line of sight

[Miraj]

I guess each to their own. I get to rough map outline first with a rough heights then I add the rivers, sort out the ground types and finally do the heights. Just adding fords to rivers allows you to overcome any rivers issues. Doing ground types and heights (other than roughly) before you do the rivers makes no sense to me.

Regions I normally add as I go along. I've never started by stripping down to 1 region only.

Well you do realize that my post was meant to summarize what I do, right? You don't have to follow it at all - no one does. So it doesn't make much sense for you to feel the need to attempt to shoot me down. But yeah, I guess to each their own. You're method doesn't make sense to me much either. The best method *IMO* is:

1. Map Heights - define your key mountain ranges, plateaus, lowlands etc
2. Map Ground Types I - overlay mountains over ranges, hills over highlands and rocky
4. Map Ground Types I - basic rough draft of your other ground types. Deserts, agriculture, forests etc.
5. Add basic climate types - rough
6. Add core regions (about 20 or so)
7. Add core river systems.

After this I just go systematically from region to region (east to west for me) and focusing on details and doing all the map files usually simultaneously, mostly with GT and climates.

Obviously I do the river-related GTs after the doing the rivers first. So this method is hardly set in stone.

However the core steps for me are still map-heights, GTs, Climates (these two i do nearly simultaneously), core regions, and then map features.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, I'm sure you're method has its advantages. But I'm just explaining what worked for me.

[Tominokar]

Definately try splitting all your current regions into two, particularly the one that river's in. That solved all unexplainable crashes for me (well, making it explainable), and it also makes scrolling around on the map much more stable. It's time consuming but worth it, I haven't had a CTD since I increased the numbere of regions from about 25 to 50. These were all just dummy regions btw, it's best to put proper borders in only when you're completely satisfied with everything else.