Greeks vs. Romans

[Evan_2009]

Ok, in multiplayer most people use the urban cohort/archer/praetorian cavalry combo when being romans. With a 20k or 10k budget, is it possible to beat a good roman player with the greek cities? I mean i've tried all types of unit combos but I cannot get victories with the Greeks.

[unfortunate crow]

Use light infantry to tie up the phalanxes, invest in heavy cav and only a few hot units and beat the cohorts with mobility. Make use of charging.

[Prince_of_Macedon]

You're brave if you're using the Greeks online. At the 10k level, I haven't lost to the Greeks since January (when I was still a beginner).

To answer your question, the Greeks don't really stand a chance against Rome. Upgraded Armoured Hoplites (or Spartans even) get completely owned by Urban Cohorts. Urbans have three advantages:
1) ridiculous stats
2) pila (javelins)
3) they're much more mobile than hoplite units

And just to clarify: Armoured Bodyguards are the only heavy cavalry units that Greece has. But its high cost at 10k denarii doesn't justify its use en masse. And just the same, they get slaughtered even by Legionary Cavalry.

One of the most common tactics you'll see Greeks use (online) is the Noob Box.

Here's the general method of constructing a Noob Box:
Basically, you form a defensive perimeter with your hoplites. Inside the your perimeter ("box"), you'll put your archers or artillery pieces. That'll help prevent the Roman from using heavy cavalry on you. As for Urban Cohorts, the Greeks have no answer.

With a 20k or 10k budget, is it possible to beat a good roman player with the greek cities?

Not at the 10k level. The only way you'll win is if your opponent makes a mistake. And if your opponent is good, he won't make many mistakes.

But if you like using Greece, you should continue to do so. The game isn't just about winning. It's about re-enacting ancient warfare with fellow enthusiasts (even though the game isn't historically accurate to begin with).

[unfortunate crow]

And just to clarify: Armoured Bodyguards are the only heavy cavalry units that Greece has. But its high cost at 10k denarii doesn't justify its use en masse. And just the same, they get slaughtered even by Legionary Cavalry.

Damn mods have made me forget about that little detail... Seems most of them beef up Greece and Macedon to fanboyish levels.

But I digress.

Greece does have those light lancers right? I've gotten pretty good results with them using charge tactics.

Still the key is tying up the urbans with a low-cost worthless unit. The only way to hurt them is to hit them in the back...hard. Even hitting a flank doesn't seem to slow them down.

Sometimes you can overlap your phalanxes so you can still have spears sticking out of the corner of your phalanx box. More than likely he'll just decimate a small section with missile fire (or ravage the whole formation with onagers if he has them), and hit it hard. You're other units will be in a poor position to help then.

And I will echo that if you like using the faction, continue. I love using Gaul, even though I get wasted a lot of the time, esp. against the Romans.

edit: Also, if you can afford to do so, use the weapon upgrade on your units (just a little per unit, maybe only one) to give them a little extra punch for getting through the Roman armor. Or you can do 1 chevron of experience, I forget which is more cost-effective. If money is tight, only do it on your chargers.

[Prince_of_Macedon]

Damn mods have made me forget about that little detail... Seems most of them beef up Greece and Macedon to fanboyish levels.

But I digress.

Greece does have those light lancers right? I've gotten pretty good results with them using charge tactics.

Still the key is tying up the urbans with a low-cost worthless unit. The only way to hurt them is to hit them in the back...hard. Even hitting a flank doesn't seem to slow them down.

They've got Greek Cavalry (which lacks the charge of a Light Lancer). They also have Militia Cavalry (mounted javelins). But it's hard to outmaneuver the Romans when they have a such a complete mastery of cavalry units (especially over Greece).

[unfortunate crow]

Who has the damn Light Lancers?

[Prince_of_Macedon]

Who has the damn Light Lancers?

That's Macedon! lol

[unfortunate crow]

Rats! Foiled again!

To the OP:

Yeah, you're pretty much screwed.

[Crusader Invasion]

Spartans>Urban Cohorts
Spartans>Pretorian Cavalry
Spartans>Pretty much anything

So, basically, get a lot of spartans. They are the best infantry in the game.
They can even beat armored elephants! Especially if you upgrade their experience/armor/weapons.

[Prince_of_Macedon]

Spartans>Urban Cohorts
Spartans>Pretorian Cavalry
Spartans>Pretty much anything

So, basically, get a lot of spartans. They are the best infantry in the game.
They can even beat armored elephants! Especially if you upgrade their experience/armor/weapons.

Urbans + Micro > Spartans

Spartans are good, but they're still spearmen. Urbans have pilas which decimate Spartans even before they get into a melee fight.

And at 10k denarii, Spartans are too expensive to use in large numbers.

[Crusader Invasion]

Spartans are good, but they're still spearmen. Urbans have pilas which decimate Spartans even before they get into a melee fight.

Spartans have two hitpoints, a lot more attack than Urbans, and are spearmen (which makes them way better than normal infantry because they can beat cavalry too). PHALANX, Urbans cant get past a wall of Spartan spears.

But, yeah, they are expensive.

[Prince_of_Macedon]

Spartans have two hitpoints, a lot more attack than Urbans, and are spearmen (which makes them way better than normal infantry because they can beat cavalry too). PHALANX, Urbans cant get past a wall of Spartan spears.

But, yeah, they are expensive.

Do you want to meet me for a quick battle? I'll show you how easy it is to rip apart Spartans.

[Crusader Invasion]

Do you want to meet me for a quick battle? I'll show you how easy it is to rip apart Spartans.

You wouldn't be able to flank me (I would form a big undefeatable schiltrom formation), so what's your strategy? You'd also have to download the ATG Spartan mod that I have. There are also a few things that I wont play you if you have them; Onagers for one.

[Prince_of_Macedon]

You wouldn't be able to flank me, so what's your strategy? You'd also have to download the ATG Spartan mod that I have. There are also a few things that I wont play you if you have them; Onagers for one.

I won't use Onagers. I'll only use heavy cavalry, heavy infantry and some archers.

My strategy would be dependent on what I see after deployment.

And the OT is referring to RTW version 1.5.

[Crusader Invasion]

And the OT is referring to RTW version 1.5.

The Spartan mod only changes the skin, not attack or defense.

[Prince_of_Macedon]

The Spartan mod only changes the skin, not attack or defense.

Can you put your original skin back so we can play then?

[Crusader Invasion]

^Yeah, ok. Or you could download it, then remove it after.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downl...do=file&id=867

Ooooo! I just checked, I can feild a pretty nice Spartan army for 10k.

[Prince_of_Macedon]

Alright, meet me in the Chat Lobby in 3 minutes.

My name will be Prince_of_Macedon.

[Crusader Invasion]

Alright, meet me in the Chat Lobby in 3 minutes.

My name will be Prince_of_Macedon.

I just remembered, my laptop's internet isn't working. I'll PM you when it is (probably not today). Sorry, mate. I really am, I just got a new modem yesterday and I can't seem to get the wireless to work. Please don't think this is an excuse.

P.S. Just in case you're wondering, I'm on my crappy desktop right now. It doesn't play RTW very well... at all.

[mrcrusty]

You wouldn't be able to flank me (I would form a big undefeatable schiltrom formation), so what's your strategy? You'd also have to download the ATG Spartan mod that I have. There are also a few things that I wont play you if you have them; Onagers for one.

That's more or less the "noob box" isnt it?

I suppose if you formed at the corner of the map, you couldn't get flanked, so massing your phalanxes thjere might work.

But I still think the Romans would win (if only due to the damn pila), playing on large unit size (80 infantry per unit), the urban cohorts could probably wipe out 1/4 of each spartan unit before even engaging in melee.

Not to mention the Romans have the cavalry advantage too.