BGR-V 20150324. Byg's Grim Reality (Supply & Command Series): Guides, Updates & Optional Extras

[Byg]

Supply System

Currently an army will begin with and can get fully supplied by spending time in a settlement of greater than 50% own religion, making it not so easy for some newly conquered places.

In any foreign territory your army will take supplies from that region, but after 4 turns in any foreign region you will have stolen all there is to steal.

Your own supplies will then begin to drop by 1/4 and for every further 4 turns you spend in that region.

If you move to another enemy territory then you can ravage that for 4 turns too.

If you move rapidly through foreign territory you will not need to use your own supplies. e.g. you could spend 3 turns in enemy territory then move on to greener pastures in another enemy territory.

You will not be able to top up your supplies with enemy resources, just use them instead of your own to prevent further loss.

If you are crazy or unfortunate enough to allow your army to fully run out of supplies then you will be hit by a massive penalty that will make your army weak in battles, likely to revolt on the map and unable to keep order in a city if they are capable of taking one. ( I will add unrest)

When you return to or enter a settlement with a supportive religious population you supplies will recover by 1/4 each turn.
I will add a one time boost of 1/4 supplies for when you take an unfriendly religious settlement.


What I need now is thoughts on other ways to resupply or lose supplies. Or if you think the current system is fine or in need of tweaking.

Here are my unstructured thoughts. The possibility of some of these I do not yet know, but they may inspire some other more possible idea.

My favourite first:

Using a transferrable ancillary icon to represent supplies and therefore being able to use a spare general to carry extra supplies for the main general and his army.

Able to take supplies from conquered armies. Very doable. I'm sure I will add this.

Unable to get supplies in enemy territory when enemy nearby. Thus using more of your own, faster. They prevent you from foraging, which is very realistic.

Resupply near allied settlement

Taking a "resupply merchant" with armies. Their distance to him enables resupply. Unlikely to get killed, so not so good as with general enabling supplies to be captured.

Resupply from ANY merchant when close.

Use supplies up even in home territory - those long marches across deserts should have a supply cost. I think this is a definite.

Standing on food resources gives supplies.

Resupply at ports, near river.

EDIT Coming soon:

Timurids and Sallying

On another matter entirely, I want to sort out the ineffective Timurid armies (see my posts in screenshots thread).

To that end I may remove Timurid Elephants ability to run amok and reduce their HP to slightly make up for it. Watching the entire Timurid faction die at the hands of one half garrisoned, captained fort and a captained, half army in reserve is most upsetting.

There's nothing I can do about this with traits, so this has to be done via units, unless anyone knows something better. Can they be given cannons that work perhaps? (kk?)

Also I want to see if stakes can be prevented from being used in buildings to defend streets or gates.

Finally for now I will induce penalties for the human player who decides to beat off every enemy attack from inside a castle, fort (like me) or city.

Also, the AI has no ability against us sallying, so for those of us that fight this way I will punish with significant morale loss or maybe just significant supply loss, whichever worksm out most realisticly.
I will do all I can, as top priority, to encourage us to take our fight out into the open by attacking a besieging AI with another of our units from outside or to encourage us to intercept them as they approach.

If this isn't enough to fairly balance the game then I will release Spiny Norman... or reduce arrows in some way.

[TheFirstONeill]

hi there
when I get troops weary trait, can I just send the general back to a home settlment and replace hime with a 'ready to fight' general

cheers
Jason

[Byg]

hi there
when I get troops weary trait, can I just send the general back to a home settlment and replace hime with a 'ready to fight' general

cheers
Jason

Yes you can, though I think if you take another general as a spare, who has been in the same army, it wont help.

I did think that maybe I should stop this happening, but then historically, there is a pecedent for this. A new general is sent to take over and reinvigorate a demoralised army, even in modern times i.e Montgomerey in Africa.

Don't forget though, that unattended, captained armies may rebel if you leave them alone too long.

Please let me know how your campaign is going and what you think. Anything you think could be improved?

[ME2_junky]

@Byg
This is good stuff mate...I like this supply system & I think that apart from needing to resupply in home territories & any merchants all the other options would work well.

Perhaps instead of a general to carry extra supplies the ancillary would be for a supply merchant?
Campaigning in enemy territory should be expensive...supplies delivered this way should cost money.
If possible the cost should vary in relation to army size.

[Byg]

@Byg
This is good stuff mate...I like this supply system & I think that apart from needing to resupply in home territories & any merchants all the other options would work well.

Perhaps instead of a general to carry extra supplies the ancillary would be for a supply merchant?
Campaigning in enemy territory should be expensive...supplies delivered this way should cost money.
If possible the cost should vary in relation to army size.

Good input. Currently I am doing the supply system via traits only - I'm making supplies last longer in friendly territory and have run into some snags. Once that is done I will immediately tackle or try to tackle the supply ancillary option.

I'm unsure if traits can influence finances outside of a city, so I'm not sure about making the supplies cost more yet.

Making the cost vary with army size would be lovely, or perhaps supplies get used faster with a larger army. However, trait scripting is very limited in what it allows us to do. We can measure relative size of armies and relative proportions of different unit types, but I don't think it's possible to measure numbers or even number of units.

[ME2_junky]

Well as long as some sort of measure can be applied to cost or supply use relative to army size, it should be fine.

I am currently working on enahnced realism of the building tree & buildings in general...beyond constructions times and cost I have created Iron mines that must be used in order to create smiths for armourer or better. This gives the relity of competeing for resources some of its lost honor
The building still lacks proper description and such details but that is easy to do later...

There are too few Iron resources so I am strategically re-populating Iron dispersion on the current map. Should be done for version 1.3 of my minimd.

Perhaps, when version SS 4.0 comes out we can improve the building tree by requiring resources like Iron for a future minimod?
I have been really annoyed with the ease in which the game allows you to create units that might need alot of resources.

Horses resource for creating stables? (or great market etc)
Timber resource for siege weapons

Well...you get the idea... but definitely something along those lines.

[Byg]

Well as long as some sort of measure can be applied to cost or supply use relative to army size, it should be fine.

I am currently working on enahnced realism of the building tree & buildings in general...beyond constructions times and cost I have created Iron mines that must be used in order to create smiths for armourer or better. This gives the relity of competeing for resources some of its lost honor
The building still lacks proper description and such details but that is easy to do later...

There are too few Iron resources so I am strategically re-populating Iron dispersion on the current map. Should be done for version 1.3 of my minimd.

Perhaps, when version SS 4.0 comes out we can improve the building tree by requiring resources like Iron for a future minimod?
I have been really annoyed with the ease in which the game allows you to create units that might need alot of resources.

Horses resource for creating stables? (or great market etc)
Timber resource for siege weapons

Well...you get the idea... but definitely something along those lines.

The problem with that might be that people without iron still had iron weapons because they traded them. Same for hoses, wood, food etc.

Unfortunatley I don't think you can mod whether regions are trading iron with their merchants in other territories as far as the building tree is concerned.

If you weren't trading with anyone then if just one of your regions had iron then all would have access to iron, realisticly speaking.

What you suggest then is probably all that is possible. Sounds good.


See 1st post for Byg's Supply System updates.

[ME2_junky]

Already implemented toa certain degree.

Look here -> http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...51#post1911951

I substitute certain resources for Markets...but still made having a resource the best option.

[ME2_junky]

Some more thoughts of a resource 'system'...despite no real proper implementation, still the general idea might be do-able...Like requiring a resource such as stone to create large walls...
As for market...you are quite right that if a region had the needed resource it would be supplied throughout the country...I shall look into scripting this...but am not expecting to be amazed.
If not...I will untie markets from city sizes, thus allowing trade to flourish and substitute for lacking resources whihc in turn will enable a city to grew...which is probably more realistic anyways.

[Byg]

Already implemented toa certain degree.

Look here -> http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...51#post1911951

I substitute certain resources for Markets...but still made having a resource the best option.

Are your changes made to buildings, units and resources files based upon the ones I provide?

I ask because if not then people using both mods wont get some of the 'Grim Reality' features in your 'Harcore' mod.

Entirely up to you which you chose to do, but it might be worth mentioning on your page.

[ME2_junky]

The changes are based on the default SS 3.2 files. But To really have everything going right I think it is important to have SS 3.2 + UAI 1.5 and your mod. The changes I have are not "hardcore" by themselves...they compliment (IMO) the combination of these three mods.

Technically there is one thing they do not get from your mod...a morale boost. Which after giving the matter some thought would probably be needed for elite units so they do not run away no matter what...

[Byg]

The changes are based on the default SS 3.2 files. But To really have everything going right I think it is important to have SS 3.2 + UAI 1.5 and your mod. The changes I have are not "hardcore" by themselves...they compliment (IMO) the combination of these three mods.

Technically there is one thing they do not get from your mod...a morale boost. Which after giving the matter some thought would probably be needed for elite units so they do not run away no matter what...

Well, my mod, technically speaking, makes morale for all units closer together so no bunch of elite units can dominate. The idea was to prevent the player from easily routing ai units in order for the battles to take a greater toll of lives.

As you are altering resources, and buildings files from the standard SS, you also wont get any area of recruitment effects for Templars if you wanted them.

Anyway, good luck with it.

[ME2_junky]

Well...on second look I have modified the files AFTER installing your mod...so the only thing left out is morale bonuses...

As for AI armies running away...heh, most of the time my armies are so penalised by being weary etc that they barely stand and fight!
Which I prefer. General needs to blow the horn alot, make him friggin do some work

You said you might update at night...this is the night (3:22am)...oh well...I'll check tomorrow.

One more thing, why not change the name of the mod (as its loooooong) to something short like Byg's Grim Reality. Has a nice ring no?

[Lord Finga]

hey! this sounds really great! and i think it would also perfectly fit into dlv! could you also make a dlv version of this amazing mod? would be very nice! *THUMBS UP*

and +rep for this invention!

edit: whoops! just saw you disabled reputation. nevertheless, i gave some to you... you really deserve it!

[Caesar Clivus]

Another quick question Byg. Are you taking into account unit experience?

For example, a battle-hardened unit with gold chevrons that has been campaigning for years and years would be less likely to lose morale and to desert when being in enemy territory for a long time than a freshly recruited "green" unit with no experience.

[Byg]

Well...on second look I have modified the files AFTER installing your mod...so the only thing left out is morale bonuses...

As for AI armies running away...heh, most of the time my armies are so penalised by being weary etc that they barely stand and fight!
Which I prefer. General needs to blow the horn alot, make him friggin do some work

You said you might update at night...this is the night (3:22am)...oh well...I'll check tomorrow.

One more thing, why not change the name of the mod (as its loooooong) to something short like Byg's Grim Reality. Has a nice ring no?

Glad you need the horn.

Couldn't finish in time last night because I had so many ideas that my head fell off. Will talk about that below.

Yes, I do need to do something about the name, but ideally it would be longer as in "Byg's Grim reality mod for realism and increased difficulty with supplies and stuff"

hey! this sounds really great! and i think it would also perfectly fit into dlv! could you also make a dlv version of this amazing mod? would be very nice! *THUMBS UP*

and +rep for this invention!

edit: whoops! just saw you disabled reputation. nevertheless, i gave some to you... you really deserve it!

Thanks for the offer of rep, but your comments are more than enough.

I was recently thinking of doing it again for dlv - I would just need to add in the new supply system to what i had before, which was for my own use.

DLV was the 2nd mod I tried in M2TW and have played it the most. Then I gave SS a whirl and had such a great game playing Templars, with a little modding, that I have stayed here.

Wouldn't it be nice if these two great mods merged?

I'll wait until it's finished and tweaked for SS then do DLV, probably.

Another quick question Byg. Are you taking into account unit experience?

For example, a battle-hardened unit with gold chevrons that has been campaigning for years and years would be less likely to lose morale and to desert when being in enemy territory for a long time than a freshly recruited "green" unit with no experience.

I don't believe that's possible to do. I'm limited to affecting Generals and thereby their armies. I can't make captained armies desert or pick out effects to only attribute to certain troop types.

Fortunately captained armies desert by themselves. I'm not actually sure if this is a vanilla feature or SS, but I like it.

I can make generals more likely to desert though and they take their armies with them.

Gold chevron units will benefit though because some of the massive morale drops you may experience may be tolerated by such high level units. Making them an essential backbone if you fail in your logistics.

Will continue to post Byg's Supply System updates in the 1st post.

[Lord Finga]

I'll wait until it's finished and tweaked for SS then do DLV, probably.

yeah! great! thank you, byg!!! i would do it myself (i know how much work merging can be... oh yes... ), but i've to learn for my exams, so it's also good news for me, that you won't start merging before you've finished it for ss . i know i would stop learning immediately just to try out the submod - only a few rounds... you know what i mean .

[Byg]

Byg's Grim Reality 2 - Supply and Command (For Testing)

Is released.

All news and details in the first post as usual.

Hopefully a quick installer and auto backup will be following soon.

Thank you and good night.

[Mike13531]

can you maybe have a smaller version, that doesn't involve supplies and destroy reputation? I mean this is great, but don't you think the realism is a bit too much? it'll make it impossible to win in Vh campaign without cheating.
but i love your ideas on the Bent on glory, and displined troops and first major victory. would you be kind enough to put a character_trait file that's only for those three traits?

[Byg]

can you maybe have a smaller version, that doesn't involve supplies and destroy reputation? I mean this is great, but don't you think the realism is a bit too much? it'll make it impossible to win in Vh campaign without cheating.
but i love your ideas on the Bent on glory, and displined troops and first major victory. would you be kind enough to put a character_trait file that's only for those three traits?

Ah, well if I've made it impossible to win then I will very pleased. After all my intention was to make it more demanding on advance planning. I hope much hair will be lost in anxiety.

Short of a sword coming out of the screen and poking me in the eye I don't think you can have too much realism, unless it ruins gameplay.

It is possible that in time I may do something that pops individual traits in (just an idea), but currently some are linked and my intention is to link them more.

To answer your question:
You can always play on easy level to make it easier. Even a General with destroyed reputation would clean up I'm sure.

Perhaps more obviously, just use the original version for an easier game, which I have left available to download.