BGR-V 20150324. Byg's Grim Reality (Supply & Command Series): Guides, Updates & Optional Extras

[Byg]

Hi uanime5

Yes, but are you using it in ss or your own mod? Those are ss compatible files i.e they are the ss traits etc files with my bits added. Also you cannot use the autoinstaller for old version 2 because it was designed for SS. The old auto version worked by removing and backing up existing SS files and then replacing them with the same standard ss files. but with my bits added.

To use that old version (which was made for ss) in any other mod you need to just cut and paste my bits from my file only version, at the bottom of my first post (or cut the bits out of SS4.1), into your own traits, vnvs etc or you will get stuff that was only made for SS by other mods that are in SS.

Please let me know if that was the problem or not.

Latest version 2.1beta installs into any mod, backs up and uninstalls at will.

[uanime5]

I'm using 'Byg's Grim Reality 2 - Supply & Command' in my own mod. I chose to use a manual version because I was able to just add the traits files to my mod.

[notger]

Do the supply-chain-mechanics also apply to the AI armies?

(Sorry if that has been answered before. I did a fruitless search.)

EDIT: Found the answer on page 7. The answer is no. Unfortunately. I would like to implement sophisticated "hold them on and bleed them dry"-myself, instead of being on the wrong end of the stick.

[magraev]

I like the supply rules, but I feel that the decreased movement combined with the harsh penalties are a bit much, forcing me to fight with captain-led armies rather than generals in the larger regions.

Is there a way (in the files) to stretch supplies to double their present value?

[Byg]

Do the supply-chain-mechanics also apply to the AI armies?

(Sorry if that has been answered before. I did a fruitless search.)

EDIT: Found the answer on page 7. The answer is no. Unfortunately. I would like to implement sophisticated "hold them on and bleed them dry"-myself, instead of being on the wrong end of the stick.

I've given the start supplies to the ai in the new 2.1 version. They wont do anything at the moment, but as they are there now i may put my mind to it in the future.

I like the supply rules, but I feel that the decreased movement combined with the harsh penalties are a bit much, forcing me to fight with captain-led armies rather than generals in the larger regions.

Is there a way (in the files) to stretch supplies to double their present value?

Hi, what version of ss (I assume you are using in ss) are you using?

from 4.1 the movement drop was only 5 for running out of supplies, so it really should not be affecting you too much relative to some other traits.

You can just remove the movement penalty altogether by editing the trait level "outofsupplies". Put a ; at the begining of the movement penalty line.

Greater movement is lost through your injuries etc if you have those, in the bbb traits, as far as I remember them.

Of course you could just plan accordingly so you don't run out of supplies

In the new version of grim reality 2.1, certain chief generals get extra supplies and other goodies. The process was too difficult to explain easily though (it took me a day).

[Foreign Fruitcake]

How can we get this to work in Kingdoms? Anybody know? Or should I just wait for SS 5.0?

[magraev]

HI - I'm playing 4.1 SS. And i like it. A lot.

Maybe I've been playing other mods too much, but it just seems to take a long time to walk from Novgorod to Moscow (for example).

So If I send an army and general from Novgorod to fight rebels outside Moscow, I'd probably have a sick general and -3 to morale simply from walking there. That seems too much imho.

What I'd like to do, is to double the time an army can walk around without getting problems, especially in my own territory. Then I wouldn't have to lessen the actual penalties.

[Byg]

How can we get this to work in Kingdoms? Anybody know? Or should I just wait for SS 5.0?

The new version 2.1 works in kingdoms. The only thing holding this up from release is that I am the only tester that I have feedback from. There are currently no errors though, but gameplay feedback is needed.

HI - I'm playing 4.1 SS. And i like it. A lot.

Maybe I've been playing other mods too much, but it just seems to take a long time to walk from Novgorod to Moscow (for example).

So If I send an army and general from Novgorod to fight rebels outside Moscow, I'd probably have a sick general and -3 to morale simply from walking there. That seems too much imho.

What I'd like to do, is to double the time an army can walk around without getting problems, especially in my own territory. Then I wouldn't have to lessen the actual penalties.

Well firstly, the sick generals code is from bbb minimod so you need to see them to suggest alterations or KK to tweak his version of it.



My morale bits are in my Battle Readiness Traits, which reduce morale by 2 per every 4 turns the army is away from a home. The first level is "Weary"
It is not a permanent trait though and constantly rolls around depending on what you do and how well you do it.

e.g. when you reach and fight that rebel army, on winning, your morale returns slightly or you will be closer to it returning.

The most important thing though is that you will almost certainly defeat any rebel army anyway, so temporary loss of morale is not something to worry about. It all returns on entering a settlement which is mostly of your religion type.

Have you ever lost a battle because of it?

Which traits does your genral posess or suffer from apart from sickness?

[magraev]

Thanks for the reply!

Maybe the disease is the worst part when I think about it. I probably haven't lost fights because of weariness. Pneumonia gives a loss of movement, hitpoints and piety(!) I think. You can get it day 1 out of a settlement. Scurvy is also bad, but maybe only applies to sea-voyages.

And if the troops have become "despondent" after chasing rebels it will take 3-4 turns to get them back to normal I believe.

Alone these two are not so hard, but put together you get a tough situation.

[Byg]

Thanks for the reply!

Maybe the disease is the worst part when I think about it. I probably haven't lost fights because of weariness. Pneumonia gives a loss of movement, hitpoints and piety(!) I think. You can get it day 1 out of a settlement. Scurvy is also bad, but maybe only applies to sea-voyages.

And if the troops have become "despondent" after chasing rebels it will take 3-4 turns to get them back to normal I believe.

Alone these two are not so hard, but put together you get a tough situation.

Despondent is two turns I think, the full details of how they work are in the 1st post in this thread.

I get to fight really good, tough battles when my troops reach levels after despondent, like desperate etc. I don't think I've ever reached mutinous though, outside of testing.

Let me know though if you are getting repeatedly bashed as a result of these. Though as you know, they are avoidable by advance planning, usually and you can always just send a fresh general while the other one recovers.

I could reduce the effects of the battle readiness traits when I do an easier 2nd version of 2.1 - I could halve the morale effects for that version - so your feedback is useful. I'm a little reluctant though because if bbb mod changes again and gets easier then the result will be too easy overall (for umbrella mods like ss that use both mods).

[Byg]

Hi all,

I am posting to get feedback (from gameplay and history lovers) for a completely new version of my mod for SS5 that I have been working on for some months. I hope to do this for all mods, but first for SS5.

In brief, it is a new system of recruitment based on my old supplies mod that is in SS5 and DLV.

Apart from the refinements I have added in v2.1, v3 currently contains 10,000 lines of new code and may reach 100,000 on completion.
(So far it works without noticably lengthening turn time.)

History
The idea is based around the tendency towards absolutism in medieval times where recruitment became increasingly centralised as progressively more control was desired by kings.

Kings were often in charge of the only army a faction possesed. I have steered the mod in many ways to make the player favour the King as their general.

I have also tried to address the tendency of large empires to ultimately collapse.
My personal belief is that this is due to:

1) a watering down of the original all conquering faction zeal by those it conquers

2) overstretched troops from the original homeland now trying to hold many times their original territory

3) corruption and a disinclination to fight when there is money to me made by exploiting new found wealth

Gameplay
Like all of my mods the intention is to make the game deeper, more challenging and ultimately losable.

The total war series is great, but it lacks two fundamental elements of gameplay and that is that a game should be losable and opposition should become tougher as a game progresses, not weaker.

Though unfinished, these are the current effects:

Only the King and members of his war council can recruit knights.
As their faction becomes more powerful relative to others the king gradually becomes the sole creator of knights.

Units of middling rank are recruitable by all family members
Increasing faction power diminishes this.

Militia are recruitable by anyone.

Recruits need supplies.
Recruitment requiring Kings or generals to be present (all but militia) can only proceed once the general is fully supplied.


The result then is that as your empires power increases, the best soldiers become increasingly overstretched. ( This should also help to ensure a high difficulty for factions with large starting territories, like HRE, which has 20 settlements )

This will hopefully lead to diplomacy actually being needed in your game (to beg for peace) even when your faction is large and perhaps you are faced with a crippling second front.

Mercenaries are currently unaffected and this introduces the realistic effect of armies being of increasingly foreign composition as a faction increases in size. I had thought of doing an area of recruitment mod, but mercenaries effectively do the same thing perfectly well in this scenario.

The increased use of mercenaries also raises costs relative to power, which should help keep the difficulty level up.

All effects together should help stop that aweful snowball effect that always arises at some point in the game, which happens after conquering fewer and fewer settlements the better you become as a player.

[Severloh]

Have to say I loved all of your ideas, they really let thing much more realistic, fun, and difficult

But I guess you should do an area of recruitment as well, or, at least, work with OTZ, since he is doing it. That way would be perfect, since you would only be able to train your knights on your homeland, and even if there is a family member somewhere far away, you would only be able to train that location's units. That's only my opinion tough

Thx anyway, and keep it up!

[Byg]

Hi,

As I lay in bed last night it came to me that the current code already has in place the ability to do an area of recruitment. In fact it could even vary recruitment with distance to capital, dynamically.

I'm only limited by turn delay. I could even do recruitment depending on the success of your king (i.e the more battles he fights against a tougher opponent the greater his area of recruitment)

I will also limit recruitment by religion.

OTZ doesn't like supplies so that would make cooperation difficult as my system is based on supplies. The essential files we use though are mainly different so one system could co-exist with the other with minor sacrifices.

[Caesar Clivus]

Byg, that system sounds freakin' awesome! Can't wait to see the results

[Uther Pendragon]

I love the idea - in fact, it's your current mod that has me playing again. Keep up the good work and the good ideas coming!

[Centurin]

Does this mod work with SS 5.0?

*edit* NVM. I just the read the above post. I look forward to the new version.

[King Kong]

Hi again Byg!

Nice to see that you are back in "business"!
I can only recall what Ceasar said: your new ideas sound freakin awesome!

Like all of my mods the intention is to make the game deeper, more challenging and ultimately losable.

Therefore I absolutely love your mods!

I'm really excited to try this!

[Boiler]

Thats a great idea, would really help against a human player powerhouse

[Point Blank]

Byg,
I will soon be releasing 'Real Recruitment', which tackles and more accurately depicts the different types of medieval troops, their different recruitment conditions, and how this evolved over time. It will use the same kind of systematic approach as RealCombat, significantly improves AI army composition, and makes defeat in battle far more costly. Briefly, categories are:

Feudal
Early Professional
Late Professional
Rural Levied
Local
Urban
Urban Professional

Some examples, combined with RC categories:

Lancer - Elite Late Professional Heavy Mounted Melee
Tabardariyya - Elite Urban Professional Heavy Foot Melee
Mtd Sergeant - Average Early Professional Light Mounted Melee
Jinetes - Average Local Light Mounted Missile
Druzhina - Quality Early Professional Heavy Mounted Melee
Boyar Son - Quality Feudal Heavy Mounted Missile
Italian Spear Militia - Militia Urban Light Foot Melee
Longbowmen - Quality Local Light Foot Missile
Chiv Knight - Elite Feudal Heavy Mounted Melee
Pikemen - Average Late Professional Light Foot Melee
Peasant - Peasant Rural Light Foot Melee

Will add this date to each unit card, so it can be seen at a glance what the unit is, its quality, and how it is recruited (which has implications for Replacement Rate, Pool Size, training period, which can now be greater than 1, etc), and all of which will feed into a new cost model. Full documentation will be included.

Byg, I would like to combine this your work, if you are interested, there might be a way to integrate these together, will send you more details soon, I loved your Grim Reality additions

[Byg]

Thanks all for the enthusiasm, your comments will keep me going through the tedium of this vast volume of coding.

@Point blank

Good timing, I had been thinking about asking someone with good unit knowledge to collaborate with in decididng which units get to be recruited by whom, when and where.

Integration would be very good as far as I am concerned. As I previously stated, I was very pleased when I read your first ever post about your new system: real combat.

To give you a little more info, here is is the current unit division between those that can be recruited by war council members and those that can be recruited by any general (weak militia units aside).

As you can see the division up till now has simply been based on units I would consider to be tough/high ranking units (including knights) vs units that are of medium strength (below knight rank and strength).

This method was for gameplay and historical reasons, but you can see that it is clearly a compromise e.g. with some units having to go into the "wrong" category because of their strength, despite a low rank.

My gameplay reasoning is that non war council members should not be able to raise powerful armies. I thought it too easy and unrealistic to have many generals recruiting and taking the field.

The faction's war council of 3 initially controls knights etc.

These 3 Members gradually lose their recruitment power, 1st the Leader of the Council of Nobles then the Heir until only the Faction Leader has recruitment ability for the top category of units.

The process is linked to relative military strength between factions. Therefore it is dynamic and not based on dates as I consider that history is being determined by the players after turn 1 and fixed dates for things to happen are not appropriate.

Other factors like distance to capital are included and I have added many more. There is room for more.

Units currently divided from Teutonic and HRE factions (I have been using this one large and one small faction first for testing):

TOP CLASS

Halbbruder
Ritterbruder
Teutonic Knights
Dismounted Halbbruder
Dismounted Ritterbruder
Dismounted Teutonic Knights
TO Bodyguard
TO Late Bodyguard
Feudal Knights
Imperial Knights
Gothic Knights
NE Bodyguard
NE Late Bodyguard
Dismounted Feudal Knights
Dismounted Imperial Knights
Dismounted Gothic Knights
Mailed Knights
Reiters
Arquebusiers
Zweihander
Pavise Crossbowmen

MIDDLE CLASS

Light Swordsmen
Mounted Sergeants
Sergeant Spearmen
Armored Sergeants
Order Spearmen
Sword Brethren
Burgher Pikemen
Hand Gunners
Livonian Auxiliaries

Your categories are exactly what the mod needs regarding properly reasoned defined categories. The question being whether to risk turn delay by dividing the categories into more than three parts (including militia category, which is all units that I do not need to mod in).

I look forward to discussing this and the rest further. In the meantime I will add no more factions or units and expect the current list will need replacing.