Islam

[Vuk]

There is more than one kind of deist. Again I am a Deist in mold of Thomas Jefferson. I believe that god created the heavens and the earth. That it is his knowledge or power that makes the whole thing work. And thats where i leave it. So he has written the laws of science. he does not effect them. They are for us to discover.



Have you ever asked you Jewish friends or relatives this question? Are there any real Jews on these boards(most I know have been banned) who can answer this question?

I have my grandmother's talmet (They are as hard to find as the koran...or more so), but it is in such humble condition that I do not read it.
I know something about Jewish doctrine, but I do not agree with most of it. I don't know very much, but I will help you with what I can. What do you want to know?

Vuk

[Sher Khan]

How is it that you can claim that we're somehow 'hiding' the Quran from others, Vuk? I mean, short of having motels leave one in the rooms for free, I don't see how it's possible to make it more accessible.


But honestly... flying planes into houses? Damn, man. Just damn...

[Vuk]

How is it that you can claim that we're somehow 'hiding' the Quran from others, Vuk? I mean, short of having motels leave one in the rooms for free, I don't see how it's possible to make it more accessible.


But honestly... flying planes into houses? Damn, man. Just damn...

Anyone can get a koran, but getting the koran is harder. So much is omitted from the available korans that it is hardly worth while to read them. It is actually the same for the talmat that I respect. I do not know why that would be...but...
Vuk

EDIT: You got to admit, the bit about the planes was hilarious.

[Sher Khan]

No. No it was not. You're lucky I don't report you for it. Don't push it.



There is nothing omitted from the Quran I can get from a few fundies I know, supplied directly from either Saudi Arabia or Iran (in nice, embroidered covers and gilded pages), to the tattered, coming-off-its-bindings, 12-years-old Koran sitting on my desk right now.

Nor is there a difference from the small copy Quran sitting next to the tattered one at the moment. Nor is there a difference from the Quran you can find posted all over the net. The only difference are the choices in transliteration (no such thing as a Quranic translation technically) and even these are well collected, even in the links I previously posted for you.

Ask any person versed to any degree in Arabic, either me, another Muslim, or even a non-Muslim Arabic speaking person, if there is a difference in the Arabic script between different copies of the Quran.

[Vuk]

No. No it was not. You're lucky I don't report you for it. Don't push it.



There is nothing omitted from the Quran I can get from a few fundies I know, supplied directly from either Saudi Arabia or Iran (in nice, embroidered covers and gilded pages), to the tattered, coming-off-its-bindings, 12-years-old Koran sitting on my desk right now.

Nor is there a difference from the small copy Quran sitting next to the tattered one at the moment. Nor is there a difference from the Quran you can find posted all over the net. The only difference are the choices in transliteration (no such thing as a Quranic translation technically) and even these are well collected, even in the links I previously posted for you.

Ask any person versed to any degree in Arabic, either me, another Muslim, or even a non-Muslim Arabic speaking person, if there is a difference in the Arabic script between different copies of the Quran.

Really?

One of the korans has houris translated as "grape". That makes it interesting when muhammad talks about full bossomed houris...
Transliterations make a big diff. You can completely change the meaning of a verse...


Vuk

BTW, go ahead and report me. I made a joke no worse than all the jokes made about God and Christians. Mine had a point at least...


EDIT: You said that the verses in the koran promising little boys as sex slaves and muhammad being told by allah not to be tempted by someones son were all inoccent. Shame other muslims don't think so. Here is a famous muslim poem from the perfumed gardens:

O the joy of sodomy!
So now be sodomites, you Arabs.
Turn not away from it--
therein is wondrous pleasure.
Take some coy lad with kiss-curls
twisting on his temple
and ride as he stands like some gazelle
standing to her mate.
A lad whom all can see girt with sword
and belt not like your whore who has
to go veiled.
Make for smooth-faced boys and do your
very best to mount them, for women are
the mounts of the devils


That seems to sum the muslim mantality up pretty well, eh? Muslims love women and don't rape little boys though, right?
(disclaimer: I am not saying that every muslim is this way, but that islam condones it.)

[Rush Limbaugh]

Ask any person versed to any degree in Arabic, either me, another Muslim, or even a non-Muslim Arabic speaking person, if there is a difference in the Arabic script between different copies of the Quran.

They may lie and say no. But I have shown you thats not so.

So I will repeat myslef since i didnt get an answer the last time

How can Muslims claim there are no textual variations in the Koran, when the Tashkent MSS differs from the modern Egyptian Qur’an in 5 passages: 2:284, 2:283, 3:37, 3:109 and 5:119. The Tashkent MSS uses the word 'Allah' while the modern Egyptian Qur'an, uses the word 'huwa' (the pronoun 'he'). My question is: Which word do you believe are in the "preserved master tablet" and "mother of all books" in heaven?

[AngryTitusPullo]

How can Muslims claim there are no textual variations in the Koran, when the Tashkent MSS differs from the modern Egyptian Qur’an in 5 passages: 2:284, 2:283, 3:37, 3:109 and 5:119. The Tashkent MSS uses the word 'Allah' while the modern Egyptian Qur'an, uses the word 'huwa' (the pronoun 'he'). My question is: Which word do you believe are in the "preserved master tablet" and "mother of all books" in heaven?

Have you actually seen it ? I'm sure you don't know that Huwa almost every time precedes Allah.. 'Huwallah' or in Hebrew HW Elohim.

The full phrase are usually Yahuallah, which mean Oh my God, and in Hebrew YHWH Elohim... (not sure what it means in Hebrew.. )

[Primvs Sextvs Loverlord]

Muslims love women and don't rape little boys though, right?
(disclaimer: I am not saying that every muslim is this way, but that islam condones it.)

(Here's some more sarcasm, boy.)

Now, there IS this country with the child-predator problem where every week, some uncle turns out to be the rapist and/or murderer of 7 to 10 year olds. Damn it, I bet the Muslim immigrants are responsible for that! Them and their darn influence.

[Sher Khan]

Really?

One of the korans has houris translated as "grape". That makes it interesting when muhammad talks about full bossomed houris...
Transliterations make a big diff. You can completely change the meaning of a verse...

But the Arabic letterings are still there. They are not hidden nor erased. Any academic from any University versed in Classical Arabic, even standard vernacular Arabic, would be able to get a hold of these books. The Arabic in your Quran is no different than the Arabic in my Quran and the Arabic in an online Quran.

BTW, go ahead and report me. I made a joke no worse than all the jokes made about God and Christians. Mine had a point at least...

If you feel a joke was made in poor taste against you, than report it. But the problem is, you can rail on Christianity and God and Islam all you want.


What you did wrong was rail on me. You told me to go fly planes into buildings and kill myself through suicide bombing. You attacked me.

EDIT: You said that the verses in the koran promising little boys as sex slaves and muhammad being told by allah not to be tempted by someones son were all inoccent.

Excuse me? Where did it say 'do not be tempted by someone's son'?

Shame other muslims don't think so. Here is a famous muslim poem from the perfumed gardens:

O the joy of sodomy!
So now be sodomites, you Arabs.
Turn not away from it--
therein is wondrous pleasure.
Take some coy lad with kiss-curls
twisting on his temple
and ride as he stands like some gazelle
standing to her mate.
A lad whom all can see girt with sword
and belt not like your whore who has
to go veiled.
Make for smooth-faced boys and do your
very best to mount them, for women are
the mounts of the devils


That seems to sum the muslim mantality up pretty well, eh? Muslims love women and don't rape little boys though, right?
(disclaimer: I am not saying that every muslim is this way, but that islam condones it.)

This has got to be a joke. You're saying a homo erotic poem written by an Arab poet some millenia after Islam was introduced is indicative of some innate decree by God to rape little boys?

That, my friend, is absolute bullocks.

They may lie and say no. But I have shown you thats not so.

So I will repeat myslef since i didnt get an answer the last time

How can Muslims claim there are no textual variations in the Koran, when the Tashkent MSS differs from the modern Egyptian Qur’an in 5 passages: 2:284, 2:283, 3:37, 3:109 and 5:119. The Tashkent MSS uses the word 'Allah' while the modern Egyptian Qur'an, uses the word 'huwa' (the pronoun 'he'). My question is: Which word do you believe are in the "preserved master tablet" and "mother of all books" in heaven?

Rush, the Quran you can buy and find in libraries are no different than the ones available elsewhere in the world.

You can't get copies of the Tashkent MS manuscript as commonly sold Qurans anywhere. Such things are a question for academia, and my discourse, if it can be called that, with Vuk is far from discussing Academia. As it is, the Quran most likely had to suffer through some unauthorized copying from time to time, and such copies kept in private collections. Not to say the Tashkent is one such artifact. The Quran, like any other, has gone through Hell and back when exchanged by human hands and human tongues. My point, however, is that every commercial Quran today, unless you inherit some ancient artifact as your Quran, is put through a lot of speculative work and referencing to ensure that there are no deviations from the accepted copies today. My entire point so far has been: I doubt Vuk's copy is any different from my copy, if indeed he has a copy.

[Каие]

I do not have ANY blind hate. In fact, I cannot think of anyone I hate at all. I have nothing against muslims, but against islam. The fact that islam orders its followers to massacre Christians and Jews, and is full of all kinds of perversion is enough. Islam is the reason for all the terrorist we have today. Get rid of islam, and you get rid of them. I am as much a neo nazi as you are a Christian my radical companion.

Thats a contradictory statement.

Firstly, I do not hate you or any other muslims. I believe that islam is a dangerous religion. I delibretaly brought up the suicide bomber issue because you, my radical friend, were trying to hide it under a rug. Terrorism is as much a part of islam as muhammad. After all, muhammad was the world's FIRST muslim terrorist. I was not insulting you FYI.
Second of all, you say, "And for your information neo-nazis hate muslims as much as jews, really they hate anyone who isnt white. "
Just so you know my clever friend, there are white muslims. Don't try and turn it into a race thing, muslims are people who follow islam. When the Germans came into Kosovo during Clinton's war, the white muslims were celebrating their "naziness".
Nazi muslims? 'fraid so pal.

So was that.

Ok, heres some news for you. I am not arab. I am white. My parents are white. My mum has blonde hair. My grandmother has blonde hair. I am muslim. I am not european. I know very well their are white muslims, since i am one.
Im radical now am i? I entered this thread with that post, i have not said anything radical. Why would i , al qaeda regularly attack my country killing alot of innocents and their justification iswe are not true muslims. I hate them more than you, mate.
Neo-nazis donot class native muslims as white. end of story.

You contradict yourself with every statement. "I dont hate muslims, i hate islam." Muhammed was the first terrorist, but im not insulting you"
Wow, get a life. You wouldnt dare say this to a muslim face to face and you have not given any kind of proof.

I could stoop to your level and start talking about all the different ways Jews have broken their own holy teachings. No thanks, ill be the better man.

The only fanatic here is you.

I am Christian by religion, but jewish and a great many other things (including African American) by desent.

How can you be christian and jewish, they hate eachother if you hadn't noticed. You killed their supposed 'god'.

I find it funny how you are a jew, christian and black. So no one can get you done for any racisim? Or is it so you find as many allies as possible. Hey why dont you become half arab too?

If you have not noticed yet. I dont believe a word yousay about anything
since youve lied and contradicted your way through this whole thread. Did you just see 'Islam' as the title of the thread and your jeans tightened, you come running so you can spread your blind hate?

Originally Posted by Rush Limbaugh
There is more than one kind of deist. Again I am a Deist in mold of Thomas Jefferson. I believe that god created the heavens and the earth. That it is his knowledge or power that makes the whole thing work. And thats where i leave it. So he has written the laws of science. he does not effect them. They are for us to discover.

I read a bit more about deists, its an interesting faith, i must say. But if you dont believe god has not tampered in the laws of science. What do YOU believe about the so called divinty of jesus?

[Vuk]

Thats a contradictory statement.



So was that.

Ok, heres some news for you. I am not arab. I am white. My parents are white. My mum has blonde hair. My grandmother has blonde hair. I am muslim. I am not european. I know very well their are white muslims, since i am one.
Im radical now am i? I entered this thread with that post, i have not said anything radical. Why would i , al qaeda regularly attack my country killing alot of innocents and their justification iswe are not true muslims. I hate them more than you, mate.
Neo-nazis donot class native muslims as white. end of story.

Native muslims? That is the most bigotted statement I ever heard.

You contradict yourself with every statement. "I dont hate muslims, i hate islam." Muhammed was the first terrorist, but im not insulting you"
Wow, get a life. You wouldnt dare say this to a muslim face to face and you have not given any kind of proof.

I gave proof that you chose to ignore. Would you like more?
My radical friend, I do not know if you are capapable, but I at least can think a religion dangerous and radical without hating all members of the religion. I find your thouroughly amusing, but I do not hate you my radical friend.

I could stoop to your level and start talking about all the different ways Jews have broken their own holy teachings. No thanks, ill be the better man.

I am not a jew by religion and I do not agree with jewdism. I think they are as mistaken as you my friend.

The only fanatic here is you.

LMAO! Me a fanatic?! lol, that is the funniest thing I have ever heard!
My radical friend, I am not fanatical in the smallest way. Must you be so amusing?

How can you be christian and jewish, they hate eachother if you hadn't noticed. You killed their supposed 'god'.

No, Christians do not hate Jews. We ALL killed Jesus if you remember. It was because of OUR sins that He had to die. Why should I hate them any more than myself?

I find it funny how you are a jew, christian and black. So no one can get you done for any racisim? Or is it so you find as many allies as possible. Hey why dont you become half arab too?

Because I don't have a camel available.
lol, I live in a land of great diversity that was just attacked by terrorists. (you know which land, right?)
I make allies with no race, but with individual people, and I do not believe in race. I believe a person should be judged by their person, and not by their race. That is why I usually do not give my race unless racism is insinuated. I only ask that you do not judge me as a white, or a jew, or a black, or and American Indian (Yes, I can see you going wild now, AI too. ), but as a person. Judge me by what I do, not what I am. Judge me by WHO I am, not WHAT I am.
I will do the same for you my radical friend.

If you have not noticed yet. I dont believe a word yousay about anything
since youve lied and contradicted your way through this whole thread. Did you just see 'Islam' as the title of the thread and your jeans tightened, you come running so you can spread your blind hate?

I was invited to the thread by a Muslim my radical friend. I have not lied about anything or contradicted myself at all in this thread, and you saying so makes you lose credibility. I do not know what you mean about the jeans tightening, and probably do not want to. No doubt some perverse muslim humor.
As stated about, I hate hate for no man. (Not even my radical friend)

May peace find you and islam leave you my radical friend.

[Vuk]

(Here's some more sarcasm, boy.)

Now, there IS this country with the child-predator problem where every week, some uncle turns out to be the rapist and/or murderer of 7 to 10 year olds. Damn it, I bet the Muslim immigrants are responsible for that! Them and their darn influence.

Which country would that be my obssesive friend?

But the Arabic letterings are still there. They are not hidden nor erased. Any academic from any University versed in Classical Arabic, even standard vernacular Arabic, would be able to get a hold of these books. The Arabic in your Quran is no different than the Arabic in my Quran and the Arabic in an online Quran.





If you feel a joke was made in poor taste against you, than report it. But the problem is, you can rail on Christianity and God and Islam all you want.


What you did wrong was rail on me. You told me to go fly planes into buildings and kill myself through suicide bombing. You attacked me.


lol, I was making a joke about islam and the mantality of islam my over-reactive friend. It was an intentional cliche and unfair grouping meant to be humorous. As I stated above, I know that not all muslims are terrorists. If you insist on taking it as a personal attack, feel free to. I will not stand in your way.


Excuse me? Where did it say 'do not be tempted by someone's son'?



Got to go offline now so I will not have time. I have the ref saved in a word file some where and will search and get the verse by tomorrow hopefully.



You can't get copies of the Tashkent MS manuscript as commonly sold Qurans anywhere. Such things are a question for academia, and my discourse, if it can be called that, with Vuk is far from discussing Academia. As it is, the Quran most likely had to suffer through some unauthorized copying from time to time, and such copies kept in private collections. Not to say the Tashkent is one such artifact. The Quran, like any other, has gone through Hell and back when exchanged by human hands and human tongues. My point, however, is that every commercial Quran today, unless you inherit some ancient artifact as your Quran, is put through a lot of speculative work and referencing to ensure that there are no deviations from the accepted copies today. My entire point so far has been: I doubt Vuk's copy is any different from my copy, if indeed he has a copy.

lol, you would be surprised at the books I have available my rather dis-trusting friend. I'm sure my library (including muslim texts) is quite a bit larger than yours.
What you say about a real koran being readily available is BS.

Vuk

[removeduser_487563287433]

Hey Vuk, here's a question, ever met a muslim?

[Каие]

Native muslims? That is the most bigotted statement I ever heard.

Arabs?

I gave proof that you chose to ignore. Would you like more?
My radical friend, I do not know if you are capapable, but I at least can think a religion dangerous and radical without hating all members of the religion. I find your thouroughly amusing, but I do not hate you my radical friend. :wink:

Proof? i dont see any. I find it funny you call me radical. My Nazi friend.

I am not a jew by religion and I do not agree with jewdism. I think they are as mistaken as you my friend.

Since 1)There is no such thing as Jewdism, 2) Jewish is a relegion not a race or nationality 3) I am not mistaken. 4) You are a liar.

[Flame Removed] Not to mention for hating Nazis, sure does act like one of those neos.

LMAO! Me a fanatic?! lol, that is the funniest thing I have ever heard!
My radical friend, I am not fanatical in the smallest way. Must you be so amusing?

Im glad you found it funny. Not like the Neo Nazi statement you didnt seem to like.

No, Christians do not hate Jews. We ALL killed Jesus if you remember. It was because of OUR sins that He had to die. Why should I hate them any more than myself?

Who is we?
Why should you hate them? right now im not sure as to what faith you really follow.
read the bible or the torah or Mein kampf or whatever it is you really follow.

Because I don't have a camel available.
lol, I live in a land of great diversity that was just attacked by terrorists. (you know which land, right?)
I make allies with no race, but with individual people, and I do not believe in race. I believe a person should be judged by their person, and not by their race. That is why I usually do not give my race unless racism is insinuated. I only ask that you do not judge me as a white, or a jew, or a black, or and American Indian (Yes, I can see you going wild now, AI too. :wink, but as a person. Judge me by what I do, not what I am. Judge me by WHO I am, not WHAT I am.
I will do the same for you my radical friend.

Ding! Contradiction! Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner.

[Flame Removed] You are definitley not one to talk of racism.

I dont know which land, last time i checked the only countries attacked by terrorists is UK, Morroco, Algeria, Spain, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Israel...The list goes on, but the US isnt there.

I am judging you for who are. [Flame Removed]

Satisfied. Mon Ami?

Too bad you dont have a camel handy, but i bet you sure dont have a small mustache?

I was invited to the thread by a Muslim my radical friend. I have not lied about anything or contradicted myself at all in this thread, and you saying so makes you lose credibility. I do not know what you mean about the jeans tightening, and probably do not want to. No doubt some perverse muslim humor.
As stated about, I hate hate for no man. (Not even my radical friend)

Nah not muslims humour, actually i believe it is western humour? Never heard the term?
Ill dumb it down for you, you get a hardon when you see threads about islam so you can spread your racist lies and prejudice. Understand now.? Good!

Everything you say is a contradiction my radical jewish/christian/black/white/indian/nazi/whateveryouare/whoeveryouare friend.

Vuk, just so you know, you started this and i ahve a right to defend myself and i wont stop until you apologise and stop using racist terms. Ill try my best not to insult you to hard. No promises though.

Hey Vuk, here's a question, ever met a muslim?

I doubt it.


|Annaeus|

[Yosemite]

Some people here are as obsessed as hitler or something like that.

[Vuk]

Arabs?


Proof? i dont see any. I find it funny you call me radical. My Nazi friend.

Then read this thread and the "ask about neo islam thread".

Since 1)There is no such thing as Jewdism, 2) Jewish is a relegion not a race or nationality 3) I am not mistaken. 4) You are a liar.
So mature...

You are a radical, ignorant racist. Not to mention for hating Nazis, sure does act like one of those neos.

A racist? When have I EVER descriminated against any race my ignorant friend?! I said that I don't like a religon, not a race my false-accusing, uneducated friend.

Im glad you found it funny. Not like the Neo Nazi statement you didnt seem to like.



Who is we?
Why should you hate them? right now im not sure as to what faith you really follow.
read the bible or the torah or Mein kampf or whatever it is you really follow.

I have heard of muslim nazis before, but never Vuk nazis...

Ding! Contradiction! Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner.

Mature. "If you want the world to believe a lie, you must say it again and again." "Repeat it and they will believe the great lie" - Adolf Hitler

Nah, im not really going wild im laughing my head off at how pathetic and weird you are. You are definitley not one to talk of racism.

Again, when did I do anything racist?

I dont know which land, last time i checked the only countries attacked by terrorists is UK, Morroco, Algeria, Spain, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Israel...The list goes on, but the US isnt there.

My mistake, 911 was just a welcoming committy.

I am judging you for who are. A racist, ignorant, prejudice, Neo-Nazi like, Islamophbist who is very childish, can't type properley, likes to use smiley faces, can't seem to quote anyones thread with screwing up and has no basis for any kind of argument except racist slurs and insults.

Look who is talking!

I do like to use smiley faces What's wrong with that?

Satisfied. Mon Ami?

Yes my dear Chief Inspector.

Too bad you dont have a camel handy, but i bet you sure dont have a small mustache?

Sorry, clean shaven old boy. I have hair on my head though, something I can probably not say for you.

Nah not muslims humour, actually i believe it is western humour? Never heard the term?
Ill dumb it down for you, you get a hardon when you see threads about islam so you can spread your racist lies and prejudice. Understand now.? Good! (A smiley! OMG!)
A hardon?


Everything you say is a contradiction my radical jewish/christian/black/white/indian/nazi/whateveryouare/whoeveryouare friend.

Vuk, just so you know, you started this and i ahve a right to defend myself and i wont stop until you apologise and stop using racist terms. Ill try my best not to insult you to hard. No promises though.

I never used a racist term my slightly untruthfull friend. Don't worry, I am used to muslims throwing out inslults.

Hey Vuk, here's a question, ever met a muslim?

Yes. In fact, there are several muslims in my community. One wants to kill me, two I have never talked to, and three are my very good friends.

Vuk

[Vuk]

Some people here are as obsessed as hitler or something like that.

Hitler who was a jew, and then started exterminating jews? Sounds a but like muhammad who was a jew and then starte exterminating jews. Or maybe a bit like his followers who make it their mission to continue the extermination today. (though not all muslims do, the ones who follow the anti-semetic koran do)
The koran is much more anti-semetic than mien kamph.
Says a lot for islam...
Vuk

[removeduser_487563287433]

Hitler's family was Catholic. Back to Vuk's world.

[Vuk]

Hitler's family was Catholic. Back to Vuk's world.

Hitler's IMMEDIATE family was.

Vuk

EDIT: Explaination: Hitler's mother worked at a jewish place and got pregnant with Hitler. Hitler was a jew and was raised in Jewish society.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Hitler's IMMEDIATE family was.

Vuk

EDIT: Explaination: Hitler's mother worked at a jewish place and got pregnant with Hitler. Hitler was a jew and was raised in Jewish society.

This is utterly unverified. You have also got it wrong, it was supposedly his grandmother. But still, there is utterly no proof that this is true whatsoever.