Ultimate Battle AI 1.2 *UPDATE*

[DrBeast]

When I get you right, you say the issue is caused by the changed formation values in RC? I'll try tight formation values.

Actually, I'm using some of Darth's older formation values (before the zeros and the negatives). Can't remember how different they are to RC, and I don't have my EDU here for a quick comparison. What I'm saying is, the tighter the formation, the more the "Charging" effect will stay, because the chargers can't break through.

I haven't touched formations for the human player, but it seems the AI file has an effect on the starting formation here as well. I'll investigate.

Why do you dislike deep formations?

I don't dislike deep formations! I dislike the fact that, every time I start a new battle, I have to rearrange the units from their 2-or 3-line-deep formation to the one I have in my EDU (reminder: shock troops 3 lines, sword+shield 4 lines, spearmen 5 lines, pike units 8 lines).

[LordWedggie]

Hi GrandWiz,

I'm playing a DLV31+en01+(Zapppa's)Realcombat mod campaign. Do you think your real combat AI will work with the above configuration?

Thanks

[GrandViZ]

Hi GrandWiz,

I'm playing a DLV31+en01+(Zapppa's)Realcombat mod campaign. Do you think your real combat AI will work with the above configuration?

Thanks

Yes, you can use all files except the export_descr_unit.txt. They belong in the mod's data folder. Also check if the mod you have uses a custom modified projectile.txt that adds new projectile types. If it does, then skip the projectiles.txt as well.

I don't dislike deep formations! I dislike the fact that, every time I start a new battle, I have to rearrange the units from their 2-or 3-line-deep formation to the one I have in my EDU (reminder: shock troops 3 lines, sword+shield 4 lines, spearmen 5 lines, pike units 8 lines).

Ah, now I understand you. You mean the depth of a unit's formation.

AFAIK in the formation.txt you can only differentiate between spear, heavy, light type infantry. Therefore spear / pike and shock / sword repectively (as long as they have the same unit count) would be equally deep in formation.

I could make shock / sword 4 lines, and spear / pike 5 lines.

EDIT: But actually this makes a lot of work, so I am not sure if I will do it at all.

Just out of curiosity, why do you put pikemen in a 8 line deep formation?

[DrBeast]

Ah, now I understand you. You mean the depth of a unit's formation.

AFAIK in the formation.txt you can only differentiate between spear, heavy, light type infantry. Therefore spear / pike and shock / sword respectively (as long as they have the same unit count) would be equally deep in formation.

I could make shock / sword 4 lines, and spear / pike 5 lines.

EDIT: But actually this makes a lot of work, so I am not sure if I will do it at all.

Just out of curiosity, why do you put pikemen in a 8 line deep formation?

Sorry about the confusion...I'm still catching on on M2TW terminology
No worries, if I know what to look for, I can tackle it myself. I like putting my files compare tool to good use!
I use an 8-lines-deep formation to better withstand the devastating charge of horsemen. When the brunt of the charge is over, I disable guard mode and counter-attack. Seems to be working fine. Also, could be a left-over from Darth's formations I just stuck with, I don't remember if I changed the value or not. Too many EDUs, so many changes! Might play around with the depth a bit to find the optimal.

[GrandViZ]

This is more a matter of the formation file, where you set a min and max unit width in meter. The problem is not to change the thresholds, but the assignment of units to the deployment positions.

E.g. if on a deployment position no pikemen are available then in certain cases a heavy infantry unit will be deployed instead. But both will use the same width setting. It would require to completely rewrite all formations, which I won't do.

EDIT: But, I'll try to stick to Hvy Inf 4 lines and Spear Inf 5 lines in every new formation I make.

[DrBeast]

Hm...so there is no way to have the units start out (during deployment phase) in the line depth denoted in the EDU? I remember that's what happened with Darth's formation file. Oh bugger, I'm still clueless...I'll stick to my tests and typo squashing!

[GrandViZ]

Hm...so there is no way to have the units start out (during deployment phase) in the line depth denoted in the EDU? I remember that's what happened with Darth's formation file. Oh bugger, I'm still clueless...I'll stick to my tests and typo squashing!

There is, but you have to specify a wider max width. I used 20 for infantry, regardless of their type. Using 30 might do it.

EDIT: This is the easiest solution to your problem, I can think of. If it works, I'll apply it for the next version of course. Maybe my first evaluation was a little too fast. I thought the effort was bigger.

[DrBeast]

No pain, no gain as they say. I'll make the changes to the file while I'm at work (if I have time) and test at home.

ETA: Did some tests with pike unit formation depth. Turns out they're more effective when arrayed in a 4-line-deep formation than in an 8-line-deep. My concern was their spread-out front wouldn't withstand a charge, but it turns out they can take it...plus they're less prone to being hit on their exposed flanks, something that often happens when they're in an 8-line-deep formation.

[GrandViZ]

I never liked the idea of 8 line deep pikemen!

[DrBeast]

Ok...just to be certain...I'm looking for max_unit_width, right?

[GrandViZ]

Ok...just to be certain...I'm looking for max_unit_width, right?

Yes, you are!

[DrBeast]

'k, cheers! I owe you a couple of beers too, if you ever come to Greece! No wait, what am I talking about? You live in Beer Country! I'll buy you some ouzo...or its turkish equivalent. Taste like the same vile stuff to me!

[GrandViZ]

'k, cheers! I owe you a couple of beers too, if you ever come to Greece! No wait, what am I talking about? You live in Beer Country! I'll buy you some ouzo...or its turkish equivalent. Taste like the same vile stuff to me!

To be honest, I have drank Ouzo, Raki, and all kinds of beer, but somehow I prefer wine! So, some greek wine will be fine!

[Konstantin Alexander]

More tests at the hungarian border.

As the enemies army consists mostly of croat axemen and a unit of hungarian nobles i use my general´s bodyguard to shoo them away from their infantry, so i can freely charge them with my imperial knights, after showering them with a few salvos from my peasant archers.

Normally this worked quite well, as the general´s bodyguard takes only few casaulties and might be able to corner the horse archers at the battlefields edge. (I know that´s an exploit, but i wanted to try it with UBAI-1.0) But lo and behold, although i come into contact with them, instead of participating in the melee, as they usually did, as soon as you come into contact with two or three horse archers, they keep running(galloping).
And, instead of being content with the regular *pling*plong* their arrows make when they bounce of the bodyguard´s armour, while they are chased over the whole battlefield they do their best to get back to their comrades, slip away from my general and even manage to kill a few imperial knights, who were just lining up for their charge with well aimed shots at their back. I was flabbergasted.

I know you changed something with the skirmishing-behaviour, but did you also change the target priority of archers/horse acrhers? I did not witness horse archers doing their best to return to the rest of their army, where their arrows actually could have an impact so far.


As a side note:
The answer is simple. Retsina. Sapped white wine.
Half of the first glass you drink will taste strange. But after the rest of the glass a special, slightly bitter taste takes residence in your throat. And you want more of it.

I recommend the Retsina of the Nomoi Thesprotia or Ioannina. (Yes, there are actually vineyards, there are simply difficult to find.)

[DrBeast]

To be honest, I have drank Ouzo, Raki, and all kinds of beer, but somehow I prefer whine! So, some greek whine will be fine!

Uh...are you SURE you prefer whine and not wine?
Retsina...hmm...Georgiadi...hmm! Ok, enough, we all have work to do! As you were (and stop tempting me!)

Ehrm...back on track: I've changed the max_unit_width values for all the formations that contain spearmen, but I've left cavalry and missile- and skirmish-infantry-only as they were. Reports will be in tomorrow, hopefully.

ETA: might as well attach the changed file for you to peruse.

[GrandViZ]

Uh...are you SURE you prefer whine and not wine?
Retsina...hmm...Georgiadi...hmm! Ok, enough, we all have work to do! As you were (and stop tempting me!)

Did I say, that I'm tired?

ETA: might as well attach the changed file for you to peruse.

Thank you very much!

I know you changed something with the skirmishing-behaviour, but did you also change the target priority of archers/horse acrhers? I did not witness horse archers doing their best to return to the rest of their army, where their arrows actually could have an impact so far.

These are the two most important changes, that were made to missile units.

- Increased the enemy-near tolerance, so they'll skirmish later than in vanilla.
- Increased their enemy-buffer distance, so they'll try tp keep a greater distance (note this does not apply to missile units that are used like melee units by the AI).

I recommend the Retsina of the Nomoi Thesprotia or Ioannina. (Yes, there are actually vineyards, there are simply difficult to find.)

I'll keep my eyes open, the next time I go to the well sorted wine store near my place.

[onefistedboxer]

Did you alter the likelihood of the AI using Missile troops in melee, because they seem to be doing that. I think this is my favorite addition, but they tend to wait until it is too late, and the battle is lost before using them as infantry. For example one of my favorite battles, using OS25, required me to use my retinue longbow men to prevent the AI from breaking through my lines and therefore routing my army - i haven't made thorough tests but my impression is that the AI will try to avoid using even capable Missile/melee units for this purpose until after their lines have broken. I'm guessing that the game can't tell the difference between capable ottoman infantry and peasant archers when deciding whether to put them into melee though...

[GrandViZ]

Did you alter the likelihood of the AI using Missile troops in melee, because they seem to be doing that.

Yes, this is one of my favourite additions, too. But there is no possibility to improve the timing or selection as far as I know.

[Canadian23]

i did a couple tests on siege warfare with this add on. the 1st battle in my English campaign i was defending a citadel with a garrison of 10 cards a mix of spears and dismounted knights no archers though. well a full stack of portugal broke though the front line using their ram killed the two guys defending there. then they for some reason left the ram their and used ladders on the 2nd wall they broke through their though having trouble moving aaround in the streets the got to my 3rd wall. now they decide to waste 10 mins to walk back and get the ram and bust my gate down but as they did this they had ladders on either side of the wall just sitting their no troops going up it. about 20 mins later the ai wakes up and attacks me with the ram and attack going up the ladders. my men got wiped out to the superior troops they had but it was a great siege. i only wish you can somehow speed up the decision making of the ai or something so they don't sit their for a while.

the 2nd a city siege went very well except i was being attacked by to armies one had catapults and bust a hole in my wall but does not attack until they run out of ammo but when they do the backup army only goes through the hole in the wall while the other sits behide their ram a whole 20 card stack and does not attack but after the gate went down they attacked.

so bascially the ai is much better great fix of the battle ai but they need to make faster break ins and don't sit around so much.

[hammi]

Been using UBAI with 1.5+fix+BBB @ 2 years per turn. Campaign and the battles have been throughly enjoyable.

Except battles vs 2 or more enemy stacks. With UAI these battles happen quite often. With 3 enemy stacks atleast one tends to just sit there doing nothing. In general, in those battles the AI passivity is still a problem.

Apparently the enemy co-ordination (or rather, lack of it) with multiple stacks is hard coded and you cannot fix that, so I assume the passivity in multistack battles is too ?