Aragon

[numerosdecimus]

Well you are preaching to the converted if you were speaking to me

We are all converted ones.

I can do this all my life

But in any case, before we start re-inventing the wheel...lets see aragon through and maybe then...if KK agrees we can start a new project...
A new faction? an old faction? specific dates, titles and events?
Whatever it is we definitely need some concrete topic & at least a hint that it will be used.

I agree, one step at a time.

But in the future, if used, these measures would increase the depth of the game and realism as well as ading more fun to the game because it's diversity would increase.

I tend to agree that things got cramped...but would also like to point out that historically the baeleric Islands contained three important locations. (Palma, Ibiza & Menorca) which aragon expanded into as the Spanish (although aligned to some degree against the Moors) "helpfully" cut the Aragon expansion south via Murcia. (see proposed map)

Portugal had also the tiny yet significant set of Islands (Azores and Madeira) which allowed them some escape from the overwhelmingly Leon-Castille-ish dominance
(Although those Islands were only settled around 1410)

And that technically there should be a few extra provinces as well as the above mentioned Islands...but that might make the Iberian peninsula a mod by itself!

Personally, from what I recall of the original ME1 there were not major problems with playing any faction in the Iberian with the addition of Aragon. (I think it comes with the expansion pack for ME1)


Perhaps we should test things more carefuly once we have some working preview that KK mentioned earlier??

Hum, I don't think we should put the Açores and Madeira. We could but, I don't think it should be put. Madeira is close to the western african coast and Açores is in the middle of the atlantic, also, have in mind map size issues.

[ME2_junky]

Personally I feel Azores and Madeira are useless as well...not forgetting that the map is just not big enough for these kind of changes.

Also instead of three locations in the baeleric we should stay with just Malorca. That would be fine.

[Aurelius Maximus]

It's that they need a castle in order to build their military units and to better survive.

true but you can always turn either zaragoza or Barcelona to a castle and theu would start out with one. Then the player that conquers pamplona and valencia can then turn any of them or barcelona into cities. Either way playing as aragon will be very interesting.

Another point about the name for the faction in spanish its "Corona de Aragon" meaning in english "Crown of Aragon" rather than kingdom of aragon, but then again its nothing major, just a little detail and it mean the same thing....

[ME2_junky]

Another point about the name for the faction in spanish its "Corona de Aragon" meaning in english "Crown of Aragon" rather than kingdom of aragon, but then again its nothing major, just a little detail and it mean the same thing....

Please read the second paragraph of the first post

[Aurelius Maximus]

Please read the second paragraph of the first post

oh oops, i missed that, cool.

Another thought on the issue of starting with a castle. They dont HAVE to start with a castle. Crown of Aragon could start with both barcelon and zaragoza as cities, i mean doesen't kievan rus and the other russian faction start with only a city? So, maybe it would make things a little more intersting forcing Aragon to take either valencia or pamplona quick or the player could always convert either city to castles.

[ME2_junky]

True...they could start with two cities...as they can rely on mercs at firsm...but you know for a fact that a player will convert one to a castle...so that kinda makes it a none option

[Aurelius Maximus]

lol, yeah, i personally woulnd't convert either one to a castle, ill just go for navarre or valencia and that's it.

[King Kong]

Hi all,

Just to let you know, I'm pretty sure that I will keep the starting position as it is shown in the preview.
Also I agree with you that Aragon don't need to have a castle from the beginning. I think Zaragoza and Barcelona are quite good starting positions and they are historically pretty correct.
As an additional settlement I've added Murcia (as in the preview screenshot) and it really fits very well in the current place and helps to make the spanish east coast more interesting. Somehow the AI was never really interested in conquering valencia and so the east coast was a very empty place quite often in my test games.
I hope you can agree with that!

[Aurelius Maximus]

Yeah, Murcia is definetly a good addition, also Palma, even though maybe it was already there in 3.2.... im not sure because ever since i got SS i've been playing with the templars so i haven't seen the provinces in the west that much. Man, i cant wait for 4.0!

[Mike13531]

ya seriously, like i'm asking for the hundreth time, T_T, when will it be out, i know i know, some of you is probably thinking "HEY SHUT UP WHINER", but , i believe me, i mean we, we are all waiting anxiously for the release. So hope KK will tell us some news about the mod, about when will be out..?

[Caesar Clivus]

ya seriously, like i'm asking for the hundreth time, T_T, when will it be out, i know i know, some of you is probably thinking "HEY SHUT UP WHINER", but , i believe me, i mean we, we are all waiting anxiously for the release. So hope KK will tell us some news about the mod, about when will be out..?

Hey shut up whiner!!

Sorry couldn't resist Mike.

Question though: With only 2 provinces and sandwiched between france and spain, does Aragon stand a chance when played by the AI? I mean if I am playing the Byzantines, am I ever likely to see Aragon kicking butt? It'd be a shame if 2 turns into the game, Aragon is someone's vassal.

[ignasigh]

Hey guys,

Recently there is a new release of Portvcale, which focuses in Iberian peninsula factions and it also includes Aragon in their list. Can it be that our mighty KK get some kind of "agreement" as we can investigate it further.

Some improvements, amongst others, are...
-Aragon's shield is nice, is the one of Catalonia and I think it's historically acurate
-There's a new almughavars skin, though I have not take a look at it yet.

On the other hand I've never heard of Murcia as an important historical region, I'd considerate splitting Provence to the actual "Rosignol" and Provence instead of adding a new province...but what's done is done!

What do you think?

[finneys13]

Calling all Aragón experts to here.

Have started a new thread for an Aragonese namelist for CNP.

[Yuiis]

Hey guys,

Recently there is a new release of Portvcale, which focuses in Iberian peninsula factions and it also includes Aragon in their list. Can it be that our mighty KK get some kind of "agreement" as we can investigate it further.

Some improvements, amongst others, are...
-Aragon's shield is nice, is the one of Catalonia and I think it's historically acurate
-There's a new almughavars skin, though I have not take a look at it yet.

On the other hand I've never heard of Murcia as an important historical region, I'd considerate splitting Provence to the actual "Rosignol" and Provence instead of adding a new province...but what's done is done!

What do you think?

I think KK's Aragon faction is/will be much more refined than that of Portucale.
-Lots of new units(reskined, renamed to fit the faction), some much more realistic and historically accurate and some just to make the faction more interesting.
-Almugaver reskin (It is still under construction as KK said).
-Specific historically accurate Religious Order for Aragon.(Ordrer of La Montesa)
-Historically accurate starting zone.(Zaragoza and Barcelona)(Although I would make a tiny tweak to the map )

Doing all of this will make this faction great!

On the Murcia issue. I must correct you and say that yes, Murcia was a very important region, specially in the issue related to the CatalanoAragonese-Castilian relations. Murcia was invaded by Castilian forces, but then a series of rebelions occured because Castilians didn't accept the almoravid traditions od the population. These rebellions were suffocated by Castile with the aid of the Crown of Aragon. Later on, Murcia was ofered to James the II of Aragon by the enemy(Fernando de la Cerda) of the Castilian heir to the throne. Aragon then conquered this region. Few years later at the Treaty of Elche Aragon gave this zone back to Castile, and the treaty redefined the old frontier of both christian states. As an old contested zone I think it must figure in the map. Also note that this region was even called Kingdom.

[Aurelius Maximus]

yeah i agree with yuiis in the importance of murcia as a regian.

Im actually playing as aragon in the portucale mod and im enjoying it but the only new skin they have is the Almugaver the rest just seem to have the catalonian flag and thats it (i like the flag like ignasigh pointed out).

I think kk's aragon is going to be much better graphically. and will switch to ss again as soon as it becomes available. but kk should check out the portucale mod to see how it plays out in the peninsula. in my game i was able to ally with navarre, portugal and castile and together (exepct navarre who expanded north toward france) have kicked out the moors out of th peninsula in a matter of 10 turns. i already have the east coast of spain all the way to cordoba and sardinia.

[ME2_junky]

@Aurelius Maximus
That sounds cool man.
Sometimes I wish we could add all the regions of the iberian...so we might get a better idea why there was a crusade in valencia & it took so much time to take the almovarids and later the almuhads out...

Maybe a potential provencial mod?
(I really want to make it but I am not skilled enough yet, maybe in a few months...)

[Aurelius Maximus]

Maybe a potential provencial mod?
(I really want to make it but I am not skilled enough yet, maybe in a few months...)

well, wilddog has already made a spanish peninsula map that looks really good that lusted is gonna use in his upcoming version of his LTC mod. Maybe you could ask him if you can use it as well and add all the provinces. If you look at the screenshot for the upcoming kingdoms campaings you will see how packed of provinces those maps are!

here's LTC reconquista preview:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=104162

[Mike13531]

what are you planning to do with ltc? lol, i didn't get it

[Benyi]

About the units, remember Catalan militias were too skilled than Italian militias, they fought with crossbow, sword/spear and padded/mail armor. They won some battles fighting hand to hand with the Almughavars.

[ME2_junky]

@Benyi
That is interesting information, can you provide some text references etc?
(for verification and further research)