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Thread: New Regent and Faction Titles

  1. #1
    Socal_infidel's Avatar PDER Piper
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    Default New Regent and Faction Titles

    Hello all -

    I've been thinking that another idea this Project could look into is appropriate faction leader and faction heir titles. I don't know about any of you, but it kind of kills the atmosphere to see your Spanish King Alfonso referred to as King Alfonso as opposed to Rey Alfonso. Or having an Islamic faction heir referred to as "Crown Prince."

    If we could come up with titles for each faction leader and heir in their native language, I think that could add even more depth to this Project. Does anyone else think this is a good idea?

    The titles can be edited in the expanded.txt file. For example, we'd just change this:

    {EMT_SPAIN_FACTION_LEADER_NAME}King %S
    to:

    {EMT_SPAIN_FACTION_LEADER_NAME}Rey %S
    Cheers!

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    In some languages, the grammar system means the leader is not written as King John, but John King.

    I know that Hungarian does that, and I now have Lázsló Király as leader, not Király Lázsló.

    Could I have a list of the languages that are effected by that grammar rule? I think Turkish and Arabic are? And the Mongols and Timurids?

    Will put a * beside titles effected.

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    Pnutmaster has asked for the native names for the word 'Regent', for the BBB mod, I can't put it into CNP, so it's just a favour

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    Spain

    King - Rey
    Prince - Principe
    Regent -

    Scotland

    King - Rígh
    Prince - Tŕnaiste
    Regent - Tňiseach

    Doesn't translate as regent, it means Chief/Leader, but it was used during a regency

    Moors

    King - Sultan
    Prince - Amir
    Regent -

    Egypt

    King - Khalīfah
    Prince - Amir
    Regent -

    Byzantium

    King - Basileus
    Prince - Kaisar
    Regent -

    England

    King - King
    Prince - Prince
    Regent - Protector

    Denmark

    King - Kong
    Prince - Prins
    Regent -

    France

    King - Roi
    Prince - Dauphin
    Regent -

    HRE

    King - Kaiser
    Prince - Prinz
    Regent -

    Hungary

    King - Király*
    Prince - Herceg*
    Regent -

    Milan

    King - Signore
    Prince - Nobile
    Regent - Reggente

    Poland

    King - Krol
    Prince - krolewicz
    Regent -

    Portugal

    King - Rei
    Prince - Príncipe
    Regent -

    Russia

    King - Velikii Knyaz
    Prince - Knyazhich
    Regent -

    Sicily

    King - Re
    Prince - Principe
    Regent - Riggenti

    Turks

    King - Sultan*
    Prince - Şehzade*
    Regent -

    Venice

    King - Doge
    Prince - Consiglieri
    Regent -

    Mongols

    King - Khan*
    Prince - Khung-taiji*
    Regent -

    Timurids

    King - Gurkhan*
    Prince - Mirza*
    Regent -

    Temur never called himself a Khan

    Aztecs

    King - Hueyi Tlatoani
    Prince - Pipilti
    Regent -
    Last edited by finneys13; June 02, 2007 at 05:47 AM.

  2. #2
    finneys13's Avatar *Insert Generic Title*
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    Default Re: New Faction Leader and Faction Heir Titles

    Was going to open a thread about this in the next few days, you beat me. If you don't mind, I will use the opening post to list the titles.

  3. #3
    Socal_infidel's Avatar PDER Piper
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    Default Re: New Faction Leader and Faction Heir Titles

    Don't mind at all. Glad to hear the Project is going to take this on!

  4. #4
    finneys13's Avatar *Insert Generic Title*
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    Default Re: New Faction Leader and Faction Heir Titles

    The sooner this is done, the better.

  5. #5
    Vindahl's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: New Faction Leader and Faction Heir Titles

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Denmark:

    King - Kong Harald (King Harald etc.) Konge af England (King of England etc.)
    Prince - Prins

    HRE:

    King - Kaiser/König (Kaiser is actually Emperror!)
    Prins - Prinz

    Russia:

    King - Tsar
    Prince - Tsarviech

    Hungary

    King - Király
    Prince - Herceg

    Sicily:

    King - Re
    Prince - Principe

    Poland:

    King - Król
    Prince - Carewicz

    Spain:

    King - Rey
    Prince - Príncipe

    Portugal:

    King - Monarca/Rei
    Prince - Príncipe

    Turkey:

    King - Sultan
    Prince - Şehzade

    Byzantium:

    King - Basileus
    Prince - Kaisar

    France:

    King - Roi
    Prince - Dauphin

    Milan:

    King - Duca

    The Venetians have no heirs, as they elected their next Doge, offen a member of a big family or the late Doge's own son
    Last edited by finneys13; June 01, 2007 at 02:33 PM. Reason: Just to save room

  6. #6
    finneys13's Avatar *Insert Generic Title*
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    Default Re: New Faction Leader and Faction Heir Titles

    Thanks Vindahl, added what should be right.

    Waiting for confirmation from Turks and Russians about their names, not 100% that the Turkish leader was called a Sultan at this point and the Russian was a Grand Prince?

    If you have anything on hand about what title the Milan leader should have, be my guest, they weren't Dukes until later in the period, the Archbishop seems to have been the top man in 1080.

    Milan:

    King - Duca

    The Venetians have no heirs, as they elected their next Doge, offen a member of a big family or the late Doge's own son
    Again about Milan, Duke isn't correct, but may have no choice. Think we will have to go with the Venetian for Councillor for their heir, actually they made of point of not electing sons of the previous Doge, at least for a few decades after the doge died.

    And the French heir was always the Dauphin, was it not?

  7. #7
    Vindahl's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: New Faction Leader and Faction Heir Titles

    No problem... I just updated the list again.
    The first to carry the title of 'Sultan' was the Turkmen chief Mahmud of Ghazi (998 - 1030). Later, 'Sultan' became the usual title of rulers of Seljuk and Ottoman Turks and Ayyubid and Mamluk rulers in Egypt.

    In Russia, the Crown Prince WAS the Tsarviech, the Grand Duke was just the title the other princes would get.

    EDIT-
    Yes are right, the Crown Prince is called a Dauphin.
    Last edited by Vindahl; June 01, 2007 at 10:05 AM.

  8. #8
    finneys13's Avatar *Insert Generic Title*
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    Default Re: New Faction Leader and Faction Heir Titles

    Will add the Turks then, thanks for clearing that up, but what should their heir be?

    The faction leader for the Russian's is the Grand Prince, not Crown Prince.

    Unless something else is found, Duke will have to do for Milan, what should the heir be called?

  9. #9
    Vindahl's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: New Faction Leader and Faction Heir Titles

    The Russian Grand Prince could be translared to Knjaz or Knyaz, am I right? And the Prince could be Kunigaikštis.

    The Turkish Crown Prince is called "Şehzade "

    I think that unless someone can clear up on the Milan-titles we should call the Milanese Crown Prince either "Duca" (The son of a Duke would also be a Duke!) Or perhaps give him a lesser title like Conte (Count), Signore or Visconte?

    EDIT -
    Changed the Polish Prince to "Carewicz"
    Last edited by Vindahl; June 01, 2007 at 09:28 AM.

  10. #10
    Socal_infidel's Avatar PDER Piper
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    Default Re: New Faction Leader and Faction Heir Titles

    List is looking good so far!
    As far as Milan is concerned, it became a duchy in 1395 so calling their ruler a duke before then seems really inaccurate. Essentially, Milan only had dukes for the last 120 years of the game's time-frame.

    Prior to that the Viscontis ruled as Lords, so maybe Lord would be more appropriate.

    Edit - looks like if we're going with Lord, then Signore would be word for it. Not sure what to do about the heir. Maybe just stick with what's in the game - Conte
    Last edited by Socal_infidel; June 01, 2007 at 10:00 AM.

  11. #11
    finneys13's Avatar *Insert Generic Title*
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    Default Re: New Faction Leader and Faction Heir Titles

    So Lord then? What is the Milanese for that? And what what lower title for the heir?

    I PMed Sicilian Vespers about Sicily, maybe he could fill in a bit about Venice and Milan.

    Now have the vanilla expanded.txt, will start to edit what is correct.

  12. #12
    Vindahl's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: New Faction Leader and Faction Heir Titles

    Quote Originally Posted by Socal_infidel View Post
    List is looking good so far!
    As far as Milan is concerned, it became a duchy in 1395 so calling their ruler a duke before then seems really inaccurate. Essentially, Milan only had dukes for the last 120 years of the game's time-frame.

    Prior to that the Viscontis ruled as Lords, so maybe Lord would be more appropriate.
    From Wikipedia...
    "After the founding of the Lombard League in 1167, Milan took the leading role in this alliance. As a result of the independence that the Lombard cities gained in the Peace of Constance in 1183, Milan became a duchy."

    So though the first Duke was crowned in 1395, the trigger that made Milan a Duchy happened in 1183. And as this is not a historically correct game, I say it doesnt matter wheater the first REAL duke was crowned in some specific year. To avoid problems and worrying it is easier just to say that Milan is a Duchy! HRE, was not always an Empire either!
    Last edited by Vindahl; June 01, 2007 at 10:04 AM.

  13. #13
    finneys13's Avatar *Insert Generic Title*
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    Default Re: New Faction Leader and Faction Heir Titles

    Will wait with the Milanese, until an Italian sets us right.

    Who wants to find the Venetian, not the Italian, for Councillor?

  14. #14
    Socal_infidel's Avatar PDER Piper
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    Default Re: New Faction Leader and Faction Heir Titles

    Hmm...looks like we may need someone to clear up the Milan issue.

    Because I also found on wiki this list of rulers of Milan - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rulers_of_Milan.

    Also found this -

    The Duchy of Milan was a state in northern Italy from 1395 to 1797. It was part of the Holy Roman Empire, by then a decentralised entity, and was ruled by several dynasties, most of them major powers from outside Italy. Although the Duchy's territory varied over the centuries, it generally covered much of Lombardy, including both Milan and Pavia, the traditional centers of the old Kingdom of Italy. Parma was also a part of the Duchy until it was split off into its own Duchy in the 16th century.
    Maybe we should check with Sicilian Vespers or Re Berengario I...

  15. #15
    finneys13's Avatar *Insert Generic Title*
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    Default Re: New Faction Leader and Faction Heir Titles

    Some good news.

    In some languages, the grammar system means the leader is not written as King John, but John King.

    I know that Hungarian does that, and I now have Lázsló Király as leader, not Király Lázsló.

    Could I have a list of the languages that are effected by that grammar rule? I think Turkish and Arabic are? And the Mongols and Timurids?

  16. #16

    Default Re: New Faction Leader and Faction Heir Titles

    @finneys13

    For the Russia faction definitely:
    Leader - Velikii Knyaz (the Tsar title is related to 16th).
    Heir - knyazhich ? (it means just "a son of the knyaz" since there were no specific term for the heir).

    Poland
    King = Krol
    Prince = krolewicz

    @vindahl
    The Russian Emperor heir had got the title "tsesarevich" since 1797.

  17. #17
    finneys13's Avatar *Insert Generic Title*
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    Default Re: New Faction Leader and Faction Heir Titles

    Great, just need the three Italian factions done and what should the Timurid heir be called? Tamerlane was only an Amir.

  18. #18

    Default Re: New Faction Leader and Faction Heir Titles

    Mongol
    Leader = Khan
    Heir = Khung-taiji (exactly)
    Timurids
    Leader = Gurkhan
    Heir = Mirza (a member of Royal family)

  19. #19
    finneys13's Avatar *Insert Generic Title*
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    Default Re: New Faction Leader and Faction Heir Titles

    That is great.

    Should those titles be before or after the person's name, ie. Khan Batu or Batu Khan? I know that one is Batu Khan, but what about the other three?

    Same with the Russian and Polish ones, and any others you know.

  20. #20

    Default Re: New Faction Leader and Faction Heir Titles

    Timurids called themselves Gurkhani (Gurkhans) since Timur had received this specific title after marrying into the Chingis family.

    Mongol, Timurid, Turk titles are always after the person's name, Slav and Byzantian - before.
    Last edited by otark; June 01, 2007 at 02:26 PM. Reason: addition

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