Committee findings on paradox, key points.

[Kanaric]

We have said everything there is to say about the feasibility of a paradox expansion. I'll give all the key points on the subject and I want your opinion.

After this we will compile a statement to make on paradox that contains our findings on paradox. After we compile the statement and its agreed on paradox discussion is over.

Ok here are the key points:

A paradox site would be similar to twcenter due to the importance of mods, the gameplay, and the type of people who play making such a site easy to create as we wouldn't have to do much different than twcenter.

Paradox has no large fansite for their game aside from their own companies site, we could attract people using mods and similar ways used to attract people from CA's site before twcenter was popular. Getting hosted modifications will be important.

CA may be upset with hosting a similar game so they have to be kept separate. We have to have two separate indexes for the forums and a separate front page. The indexes can have the same user database because the CC is important for the health of any separate fansite and twcenter as a whole. http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=98233 is an important link on this. These indexes should not show total war or paradox and visa versa. They should have all games related to that group, ONLY. However they should have the CC and probably the other twcenter forums as well.

Keeping everything separate, like above, should be safe for keeping gold status.

This is somewhat of a niche game and may have a small fanbase, however it has a highly active core site with similar activity if not more than twcenter itself.

Any site for paradox should be designed near the same as twcenter.





If you feel that i'm being too biased, leaving something out, need to change something, etc. please say so here. I want to know any points i should add these points should carry somewhat of a agreement on the committees part and a clear majority of us should agree on it.

From this we will write a committee statement on the feasibility of paradox and we can submit it along with the discussion of an expansion.


If you want to discuss paradox further post in this thread, as the only negatives people have said about it has to do with the topic:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=100841
Gold status discussion and solutions.

[Elrond]

I have been told that I am not a team player, which is true, I will therefore try to make more of a effort to be one, I will pm Kanaric if I think the committee is going off course rather than start a thread.

On main topic of the thread - It appears you missed out were forums for other games should be located - I presume from your other posts that it would be in a section at the Paradox site - could your clarify it in you statement?

Also - what is the next (specific) step / area of discussion for the commitee?

[Kanaric]

Well forums for other games is unrelated to paradox, this is just for paradox specifically.

On next area of discussion other games is going to be the primary topic.

[Professor420]

I would think once we establish Paradox will be the main focus, we will begin on implementation, no? What do other games have to do with this?

[Kanaric]

I think the implementation is going to be mostly up to those outside of the committee.

I think we just need to find who and what we need after this for Paradox and then thats it. Though I think we covered pretty much everything, since its similar to twcenter as far as concept is concerned it probably isn't something we need to discuss in length.

[Professor420]

So we are to come up with our recommendation, why we chose that, methods for attracting new members, and possible structuring? Once exactly what the goal of the committee is in terms of our conclusions is clarified somewhat (presumably between yourself and a discussion with Hex), we can work towards that direction, I think. As for your findings on Paradox I agree and there are some things I would like to add but I'll wait until my question is answered so I know best how to phrase and structure them.

[Kanaric]

So we are to come up with our recommendation, why we chose that, methods for attracting new members, and possible structuring?

Exactly.

If you have anything to add please say it and i'll include.

[Leonidas The Lion]

First like Kanaric said we need the mods.
I think we will need a strong CC and maybe some competitions.
Also finding people who mod the paradox games that can help us out as they can create mods and we could host them.
What do you guys think?

[Elrond]

I do think that forums for other games e.g. starcraft and blizzard are necessary to gain enough interest - the Paradox series has may be 2 or 3 big games - but we cannot expect them to gather anywere near TWC's comunity, in the short or medium term - a section at the paraodx site for non paradox games would boost the number of members as well as statisfying the need for TWC to expand into other games (not just paradox).

[Kanaric]

We, the committee on forum expansion, find that idea of expansion is a viable option.

The first game that we looked at looks to be a great opportunity. Paradox Interactive makes products that have a similar kind of fanbase and require a similar site to what twcenter offers now. They have everything that total war games have as far as a community is concerned so it was looked at as the easiest expansion. Any site made for this has to be made in a similar fashion to twcenter.

Here are our key findings on paradox:
Paradox has no large fansite for their game aside from their own companies site, we could attract people using mods and similar ways used to attract people from CA's site before twcenter was popular. Getting hosted modifications will be important.

CA may be upset with hosting a similar game so they have to be kept separate. We have to have two separate indexes for the forums and a separate front page. The indexes can have the same user database because the CC is important for the health of any separate fansite and twcenter as a whole. http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=98233 is an important link on this. These indexes should not show total war or paradox and visa versa. They should have all games related to that group, ONLY. However they should have the CC and probably the other twcenter forums as well. This is important for keeping gold status.

We have yet to decide on other games but the findings on this is certain and its a viable opportunity.




This is what i'm planning on submitting. Anyone disagree?

[Professor420]

Well I think Kanaric has covered why Paradox is the right choice, considerations with CA Affiliate status, and structural/implementation suggestions, let me add some thoughts of my own.

Attracting new members and increasing the site's appeal
Importance of Modifications: Its no secret that mods are important. However, looking a bit closer, the Paradox mod community appears to be much smaller than TWC, and the community appears to be somewhat mod-centric as TW community is. However, I would think that the modders are also the core of the Paradox community, meaning getting them here is almost equally important as it would be for a Total War site.

How to Attract Members: It is difficult to lure people over to a new site from an established community; in addition to the obvious promotional tools such as sigs, search engines, seeking out some recognition from paradox, as well as getting a mod community going, my feeling is we should not hide the fact that the new site is linked to a hugely successful fansite... this likely would not matter to the average joe member who sticks with whatever site he stumbles onto, but this is important I think especially for attracting mods and veteran members.

How to Attract Mods: In addition to declaring the new site hails from TWC, we should remember our unique advantages we give a fansite. There must be a promotion of the Wiki as a universal modding resource, the University as a non-TW specific modding place with obvious exceptions, SVN for mods, grassroots control (this committee for example is a good example), and professionalism, which I think is an part of all of the above aspects.

Style, appearance, function: Obviously we need a new skin and frontpage design. The sharing of databases has already been discussed. How will the rank, badge, and medal system be handled with the joint database? A technical consideration.

Content: When this committee is finished I think Hex should seek out TWC members who are part of the Paradox community or at least outside members who play Paradox games. Form a sort of focus group: what do they want to see at a new site? What keeps them as part of the community? Etc. Also, are we going to have Paradox equivalents of the ES? How is this going to get started?

Possible Staffing: Related to the issue of the ES, sort of. As far as moderators, I don't think it'd be an issue to get the first few from TWC, but perhaps we can seek out some prominent community members to moderate and administrate here. I'm least worried about moderators, actually; where do the Paradox people come in for the other aspects (content, administration, etc.)

Administration: Not the remit of this council directly I don't think but it can't hurt to give my opinions. Obviously there are security considerations. But at least initially I'd suggest Hex is very involved and open-eared with the Paradox site until it can choose suitable Paradox representatives to sit on the Council (same access as Speaker?). Or, make a Paradox council without administrative rights until Hex wants to give out the rights. But as I said, these are just suggestions, I'm sure this will be discussed in Hex extensively if it isn't already but I'm just giving my two cents, no need to respond to them one way or another.

If I think of anything else I'll post it.

[Elrond]

I agree, although the committee needs to discuss what games should be added, otherwise we would have only done half a job.

I put forward the idea that the CM should be moved to the new site - this would end TWCs link with non TW games and give the Paradox site instant and interested posters - Could the Chairman start a thread about this idea?

[Leonidas The Lion]

I agree fully.

I think that we should keep the same ranks and badges on the new site so if say a member there becomes a civitate he will be able to post in the TWC Curia.
Any ideas on this?

[Elrond]

Content needs to be seperate - Paradox related stuff is different from TW related stuff and if there is a joint staff there is a risk of people thinking that the sames things that are sucessful will be sucessful at 'PC'.

Moderation - this seems to be one of TWCs fortes - I doubt that there would be much dificulty in recruiting some of the current admin and moderation staff to be senoir staff at PC, whilst recruting citizens to be junoir moderators

Administration: Not the remit of this council directly I don't think but it can't hurt to give my opinions. Obviously there are security considerations. But at least initially I'd suggest Hex is very involved and open-eared with the Paradox site until it can choose suitable Paradox representatives to sit on the Council (same access as Speaker?). Or, make a Paradox council without administrative rights until Hex wants to give out the rights. But as I said, these are just suggestions, I'm sure this will be discussed in Hex extensively if it isn't already but I'm just giving my two cents, no need to respond to them one way or another.

If I think of anything else I'll post it.

Two councils is a rather bad idea - it promotes independance for 'PC' from day 1 - The Chief Admin at PC should have a place on Hex but unless you want to see the gap left ON being filed by a filed by a fight between sites it is probably wise not to give the new site its own council.

The comitees recomendations on staffing and adminstration should however be discussed after the commitees recomendations for which games should have forums, have been submitted.

I agree fully.

I think that we should keep the same ranks and badges on the new site so if say a member there becomes a civitate he will be able to post in the TWC Curia.
Any ideas on this?

Your making the rather large assumption that the Paradox site will have a system for promoting citizens etc - I believe that linking the site to the curia and citizenship etc isnt a good idea untill the site is well established (ie 3-6 months). This again shouldnt be discussed untill after the Non Paradox gaming forums have been allocated.

[Kanaric]

I think that we should keep the same ranks and badges on the new site so if say a member there becomes a civitate he will be able to post in the TWC Curia.
Any ideas on this?

That all is included in the users database if they want it.

I'm also adding professors entire statement.



Remember though, this is just a statement on paradox we can still discuss other games. I just want them to know the findings on this specific game.

[Gaius Baltar]

We, the committee on forum expansion, find that idea of expansion is a viable option.

Well, I grudgingly agree on that.

However, I am worried that there is no sound strategy for attracting a fan base. Apparantly, one of the main ideas is to ..

..put a link in my sig..

Along with attracting modders, which is also apparantly a theoretical idea at this point, what do we really have that will bring in members over an acute time period after the board opens?

[Professor420]

GB did you read my post?

[Gaius Baltar]

GB did you read my post?

How to Attract Members: It is difficult to lure people over to a new site from an established community; in addition to the obvious promotional tools such as sigs, search engines, seeking out some recognition from paradox, as well as getting a mod community going, my feeling is we should not hide the fact that the new site is linked to a hugely successful fansite... this likely would not matter to the average joe member who sticks with whatever site he stumbles onto, but this is important I think especially for attracting mods and veteran members.

Im not trying to be critical, but this is not a strategy. As a businessman myself, this would not fly as a proposal for fund allocation or expansion.

You are speaking a vague terms and generalizations. Perhaps you intend to provide specific examples of items like linked sigs, names of members who frequent the Paradox gamesite, or even better, the names and contact information of modders who would be amendable to moving to the new PC.

[Professor420]

Indeed but this is not meant as a business plan, this is supposed to be vague and general. Once we can agree on the vague and general then we can actually pursue it in detail, like you describe. I don't see you objecting to the idea but to the lack of detail... what we have now is not supposed to be detailed.

Indeed it would be better if we did what you suggest before we decided anything; however the time of everyone on this committee is limited and the energies of everyone are limited, and we do not have the time or resources to take such a comprehensive strategy. The best we can do is come to a consensus on an idea, and then pursue that. Do you object to the vagaries and generalisations?

[Gaius Baltar]

Indeed but this is not meant as a business plan, this is supposed to be vague and general. Once we can agree on the vague and general then we can actually pursue it in detail, like you describe. I don't see you objecting to the idea but to the lack of detail... what we have now is not supposed to be detailed.

As you state, it would be better to fill in sections before proceeding. I was unaware we were under a time constraint. What is forcing the deadline?

Again, Im not trying to be overally critical, but if I was Ian I would feel better about expansion if I saw actual names and numbers on the proposal.