National and racial pride - what's your take on it?

[Seleucus I Nicator]

I personally think it is weak to take pride in one's nation or race, since what one's nation/race has done is not what oneself has done, thus one has no reason to take pride or feel shame over it.

For this same reason I think it is just as alright to shout racial slurs as it is to make 'normal' insults at people, aswell as degrading someone's nation. They should not feel any pride or shame over it in the first place, since they have no reason to do so, for the reason I mentioned above.

Discuss.

[LoZz]

nothing wrong with national pride.


however their are 2 groups of real stupid people out their.

those who think that being pround of your nation makes you a racist,
those who use national pride to mask their own racism (a small but vocal miniority of nationalist people)


i have national pride, however i am not a racist, being proud of ones nation does not = racism

[Niccolo Machiavelli]

Interesting post, however, despite taking no pride in my nationality (in fact I regard myself devoid of any nationality), I think that insulting someone else's nationality most often is based on prejudice, which is inaccurate and therefore lacks thought.

[Kythras]

Well, I'm half-Dutch and I live in Australia, and I have much more racial and national pride for the Dutch/Netherlands than I do for Australia... what gives?

[Erik]

I personally think it is weak to take pride in one's nation or race, since what one's nation/race has done is not what oneself has done, thus one has no reason to take pride or feel shame over it.

I agree.
I think people who take pride in their nation just lack enough personal achievements to be proud about.
Quite pathetic, actually.

For this same reason I think it is just as alright to shout racial slurs as it is to make 'normal' insults at people, aswell as degrading someone's nation.

That's a more tricky one.
Personally I have absolutely no problem with people degrading my country or race.
But I think for some other people it could be damaging in some cases.
And I also think it's wrong to constantly bash on one group because IMO everybody has a right to be treated with respect.

[Niccolo Machiavelli]

I agree.
Personally I have absolutely no problem with people degrading my country or race.

Despite the fact that i think there is no thing such as clearly defined races and that I don't take personal offense if someone insults "caucasians etc...", I think the person has disqualified itself in my eyes by doing that, so I'll act as if I had been insulted - ignore...

[David Deas]

Aren't your race and your nation a part of who you are?

[Niccolo Machiavelli]

Aren't your race and your nation a part of who you are?

My family heritage may have something to do with who I am - a nation or race doesn't. That's a personal perception though (trusim - every perception is personal).

[David Deas]

How can you say your environment has nothing to do with who you are?

[Niccolo Machiavelli]

I don't say it doesn't have an influence - of course it has. It just doesn't mean that I associate with my surroundings necessarily.

I've lived in two countries for over ten years, I possess both's citizenships, I have ancestors from both countries - yet I don't associate with either of them.

[Irishmafia2020]

I think national pride and ethnic (different than racial... ) pride are fine, as long as you stick with being proud. The problems arise when "Pride" becomes an excuse to denigrate other nations or ethnicities... I, for example, am proud to be Irish-American (ethnic/national), and my own pride should be a tool to understand why other people are proud of their own heritage. It would be wrong for me to claim superiority (rather than uniqueness) over other people based upon my own heritage. My wife and I fight over this a lot, her being merely Scottish/American (ugh)... J/k

[David Deas]

This reminds me. It's always funny to see, say, an African-American on television claiming *not* to represent African-Americans. And then to add to the stupidity of it, it's usually clear they're saying those sorts of things because they don't want to be associated with stereotypes.

[LoZz]

I agree.
I think people who take pride in their nation just lack enough personal achievements to be proud about.
Quite pathetic, actually.

i find that quite offensive tbh, regardless of your views that doesnt give you the right to insult people

[Sétanta]

National and racial pride are one of the greatest things a human can have.

[Cúchulainn]

National pride is a good and a bad thing.
Racism = Bad
But national pride can be good, I'm irish so we have a long history of oppression, slavery and as a consequence we have a strong national idenity.
Now, I don't support blind patriotism, no nation or "race"( we are all humans )
is any better the anyone else, but that doesn't mean that I'm aposed to patriotism, one should at least like their country, but loving it unconditionaly is weird.

[Niccolo Machiavelli]

African Americans are a very special case imho. Whist American doesn't have any special racial trait associated with it, African Americans - as I take it - face the prejudice of being "African Americans" just by being looked at.


(Not the case here BTW - try to distinguish a German from an Austrian by the looks...).

[David Deas]

It doesn't matter. You might see a Chinese person on television claiming *not* to represent Chinese people.

[Niccolo Machiavelli]

So what? He doesn't represent them then...

[David Deas]

You honestly don't see the stupidity there?

How the hell can you be a Chinese person and not represent a Chinese person?

[Niccolo Machiavelli]

I assumed that you were referring to "chinese person" as a "chinese looking person" with chinese nationality.

Of course he still may be "chinese" by the definition of those who care about such things and thus, may represent "chinese people", due to just being chinese in their eyes - just one not associating with them - I got your point before...

However, if he claims to not "represent the chinese people" he doesn't, as he chose otherwise. He might represent them in your eyes, because you still perceive him as looking chinese.

That's not his problem and it's neither yours. It's just a difference between his self perception and your perception of him, although I believe he knows himself better than you know him. Nationality and race are just superimposed by people who care about them...


There is no such thing as "Chinese Person"