Evolution and Creationism

[Lord Rahl]

ok, here is the evolution topic...for those of u from the God topic, keep going on whatever u were "debating", and for those who are new, just post away!

[Erik]

Oops, I just made another thread about evolution, kill yours or mine? (survival of the fittest evol threath)

[Lord Rahl]

i dont know, i guess we'll let the admins. decide. i personally dont think we came from apes, but i think that evolution is real, that explains all the different types of animals, either its evolution or just continous adaptation. and either close this thread, or keep it open admins. its ur choice.

[Spirix]

I say keep this one because it was started earlier. :wack

[fatsheep]

Let me just insert my disclamer here

Evolution requires an old earth

Creation is flexible and can have either.

No where in the Bible does it say the earth is 6000 years old, that is just a common belief (misconception IMO) of many creationist scientists.

Let the fight begin! Er... debate

What if animals evolve to adapt against us :-x

Like they grow supersmart brains, faster than ours so they can reach our capacity before they are extinct..

Can u imagine crazy smart panda bears, how cool :-)

[Erik]

Good, this will be the only evol thread from no on, ok?
(means I loose)

Evolution is MORE flexible than creation, the bible doesn't have to be right letter-by-letter for evolution to work.
The idea that the world isn't old enought comes from the bible, but there is no scientific evidence for that, in fact, there is scientific evidence for the world to be old.

[Erik]

Originally posted by Caarcrinolas@Sep 17 2004, 10:51 PM
What if animals evolve to adapt against us :-x

Like they grow supersmart brains, faster than ours so they can reach our capacity before they are extinct..

Can u imagine crazy smart panda bears, how cool :-)

They would probably see us the same way we see apes, I just hope they treat us better!
(they probably wont, if they realy are so smart, they would kill us)

[Lord Rahl]

sure erik, sorry, but lets debate.

Caarcrinolas Posted on Sep 17 2004, 09:51 PM
  What if animals evolve to adapt against us :-x

Like they grow supersmart brains, faster than ours so they can reach our capacity before they are extinct..

Can u imagine crazy smart panda bears, how cool :-) 

we are the most advanced animal, and the smartest. we will evolve faster than them. and if they did get as smart as we are, then we would probably kill them and use them as experiments anyways.

[Syron]

What?!

we are the most advanced animal

Actually, humans are not very advanced at all, we have relatively few natural defences and practically no natural advantages over any other animal, they can do pretty much everything else better than we can. For example the pistol crab can use it's claw to make bubble's that temporarily reach the temperature of the sun! I'd like to see you do something that impressive.

and the smartest

Unfortunately that means jack in evolutionary terms, the best adaptions for a particular environment are normally "re-used" for example the Icthyosaur and dolphin. It's quite interesting that we haven't found a species alive or exticnt with our brand of intelligence, perhaps it's not so useful afterall. Think about it, all we seem to be able do do with our "higher intelligence" is find better ways to kill each other!

we will evolve faster than them

I don't think so. In useing our technology to help us we are basically removing the pressures to evolve as we try to keep the conditions that affect us the same.

[Lord Rahl]

Syron Posted on Sep 18 2004, 12:01 AM -Actually, humans are not very advanced at all, we have relatively few natural defences and practically no natural advantages over any other animal, they can do pretty much everything else better than we can. For example the pistol crab can use it's claw to make bubble's that temporarily reach the temperature of the sun! I'd like to see you do something that impressive.

so crabs are more advanced than we are? look at the anatomy of both, and see who is more advanced. we have a natural advantage over crabs, we can catch them and eat them, without anything happening to us.

Unfortunately that means jack in evolutionary terms, the best adaptions for a particular environment are normally "re-used" for example the Icthyosaur and dolphin. It's quite interesting that we haven't found a species alive or exticnt with our brand of intelligence, perhaps it's not so useful afterall. Think about it, all we seem to be able do do with our "higher intelligence" is find better ways to kill each other!

yes, we kill each other usong better ways, but we also do EVERYTHING ELSE!

[GodNeptune]

We won't need to evolve once everything is learned about genetics. It will be possible to design drugs that can alter DNA for whatever purpose there is. Evolution will be a choice then, rather than just a chance occurrence.

[Syron]

So crabs are more advanced than we are? look at the anatomy of both, and see who is more advanced. we have a natural advantage over crabs, we can catch them and eat them, without anything happening to us.

I didn't say crabs are more advanced (and by the way i was talking about a specific type), I was pointing out that there are a menagerie of animals and plants that display far more complex structures and anatomy. I feel that your impression is one that most people are taught the bigger the brain the more advanced, when you actually study the biology that is utter rubbish. There are far more complex creatures out there to say that we are the most "advanced" is really a little arrogant of us, it's something most humans share.

The crabs anatomy is actually very advanced for it's enviroment, it's strong carapace, razor sharp claws that naturally acumulate heavy metals to make them harder. Humans are just simply jack of all trades, nothing more, so yes in many ways aspects of other animals are more advanced than us.

I'd like to send you off without any equipment and for you to catch a pistol crab! The only reason that we can do that is because of our technology (and I think it would be difficult to do even with our technology), physiologically we are weak.

I could easily say that the crocodile is the most advanced creature. Why?. Simple, because it hasn't really had to evolve for over 200 million years, seems it's well suited to what it does! I think your idea of what is advanced is tainted by the natural human want, to believe that we are the most advanced because of our brains, not so.

[Lord Rahl]

well, if we get on the same page about the meaning of "advance" then we will not have to do this.

[genghis khan]

Syron...Humans though dont need to have specific advantages...the reason why is because we are smarter than other animals. When cavemen mastered fire and learnt that by working together with spears they can kill a bear...it shows that smarts always beats brute strength. Our advantage over animals is our ability to use technology. By using language we can coordinate back in cavemen days things like hunting and defending the tribe against predators. Physically we are weaker than a lot of animals BUT because of our ability to think conceptually and abstractly this gives us a distinct advantage over other animals. If we had no advantages then why are the most dominant lifeform on the face of the world? I dont recall whales or dolphins building rockets capable of going to the moon.

[GodNeptune]

"There are far more complex creatures out there to say that we are the most "advanced" is really a little arrogant of us, it's something most humans share."

You must be talking about aliens, because there is certainly not an animal on Earth more advanced than man. These animals may be greatly adapated to their environment, but they are really just stupid creatures. Mental capacity is what makes an animal superior to another animal. Your crabs have been living the same way for million of years and can do nothing to improve their existence. Humans can.

[Syron]

we are smarter than other animals

:devil

I've met quite a few people that are less intelligent than my dog, and scarily enough i'm not joking! But that's another story.

Syron...Humans though dont need to have specific advantages...the reason why is because we are smarter than other animals.  When cavemen mastered fire and learnt that by working together with spears they can kill a bear...it shows that smarts always beats brute strength.  Our advantage over animals is our ability to use technology.  By using language we can coordinate back in cavemen days things like hunting and defending the tribe against predators.

My own quote:

Unfortunately that means jack in evolutionary terms, the best adaptions for a particular environment are normally "re-used" for example the Icthyosaur and dolphin. It's quite interesting that we haven't found a species alive or exticnt with our brand of intelligence, perhaps it's not so useful afterall. Think about it, all we seem to be able do do with our "higher intelligence" is find better ways to kill each other!

I think I've already talked about our so called advantage over animals. Do you really think that after 3.5 billion years of evolution that we finally got round to larger brained animals because it's a great advantage? It's a blessing and a curse.

Those same cavemen you talk about using fire were highly likely, because of their wood burning, to be responsible for the drying up of large areas of the world, Australia a case in point. There expression of intelligence made such places dustbowls, a big yay for human intelligence! Just because we have an added layer of expression (called extelligence) doesn't exactly mean that we know how to use it right and somewhere down the road it will be used wrongly, usually because we are not clever enough, it's a vicious circle.

I dont recall whales or dolphins building rockets capable of going to the moon.

So in the grand scheme of things why is that so important? (funny I'm asking this as i love space exploration!)


You can only say that we are advanced if you know why we are here otherwise, what exactly is advanced? Since no-one has yet a universally agreed answer to why we are here, it's a little quick to jump to conclusions.

[GodNeptune]

"what exactly is advanced? "

Advanced means being better equipped for survival. How many species become extinct every year because they can no longer survive in their environment? Humans can use their mental capacity to survive when faced with threatening conditions, these other animals can only depend on their physical attributes. Life is all about survival, and man is more advanced in terms of being able to survive.

[Syron]

:devil i'd knew i'd get an answer like that, the reason i started that was because there are many ideas about what exactly is advanced and no one answer is right.

How many species become extinct every year because they can no longer survive in their environment? Humans can use their mental capacity to survive when faced with threatening conditions, these other animals can only depend on their physical attributes.

Funny, considering that many of these species are dying out because of humans "intelligence". please read my post not just a part of it, if you had you'll already have my reply to that. Man may be quite good at surviving but doing it at the cost of all others is a prime case of pure stupidity. We are not exactly going to survive long like that.

Our ability for extelligence currently makes us quite unique as few other animals show signs of such an ability but do not mistake uniqueness for superiority. Remember, cockroaches are more likely to survive a nuclear war than humans!

[Tukhachevskii]

There are 2 things that make the human species more advanced, they are or large brain capacity to bodymass ratio which enables use the brain for many more things than just basic survival. The other thing is our hands which make us very adept at making tools, those tools are a simple means for us to selectively evolve at need.