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Sorry for destroying your claims but Chigi vase was found in Italy, and has nothing to do with Greeks.
2nd, looking up to artistic vases and telling everyone that's the way hoplites fought is the...

What do you think guys?

Wich game will come out first:

1. RTW 2

or

2.Hegemonia Mod

You are right...we are going in circle now.
Anyway....to simplify things.....who would you believe more:

a) Atristic, and unrealistic expression painted on vase (I say unrealistic becouse of...

Well you can't deny historical fact -Xenophons writings.

Besides....if you have time...read this essay please:
http://www.lloydianaspects.co.uk/weapons/spear.html

It explains lot of things in...

I won't argue.....one advice if I may :

I think the priority should be looking at valid sources....
i have met some very stubborn people from hegemonia crew who won't admit when they are...

I have request for proper and historically accurate underhand grip:

Ancient Greek texts refer to orders given to the men to “lower” spears and advance. To deploy a spear over-arm, a man has to...

There it is ........it still exists:
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/5204/passatthermopyalene8.jpg

Not sure to tell you the truth.I think its old one 'cos there is a road now in the middle of that field.
http://www.livius.org/a/battlefields/thermopylae/thermopylae.JPG
The Last Stand :...

With exception of Spartans who wore red scarlets ..... no ?

Agreed......but when we talk about old era Spartans (shorter spears and more armur) i think in that case Pretorians would not stand a chance against them.

After the war Saprtans were not mighty force as they used to be.War did the main part, after that they gone corrupted and money crazy......no wonder they are beaten at Lectura.
They thrown away old...

I like to compare Spartans with modern military today.
Of course Athenians had very good soldiers but remember even thou Sparta had much less soldiers, their entire culture was based on warfare....

No Sir Francis you don't have to take everything so literally.I said that beard CAN raise chaces for a soldier to be just a bit more protected and a bit more comfortable inside of helmet comparing...

Of course padding was always present inside of helmet...but it can't protect your beard and lips........you can't breathe then :D

1. It's same as if you asked me "Why should we live?"
I think those parents are in some ways "selfish" and irrational.What is use in your life then ???To live and spend nature resources?!?!?To live...

BY MORAL LAW ,LOGIC AND HUMAN ETHIC.- Following simple logic of NATURAL LAW (if you know what this is) and order of things regarding human existance.
Natural law is precursor of Moral law....
Your...

Here is some nice link about greek helmets:
http://www.redrampant.com/ancients/greekhelm.html
or
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/shefton-museum/arms/greekarmour.html

So we can say that Lycurgus reforms...

Correct Racer X
i posted those pics so i could explain and visualise what i ment to say about Corinthian helmets.

But here you are people some links:
Cretan helmet....well angle is not right...

@ Sir Francis
Being victom is not immoral,but acting simmilar in any way as person wich malested you is immoral...so is lying and twisting things up.
Being homosexual is immoral....don't lie...

Well mabye Spartans did stopped wearing Corinthian helmets, but they were still wide spread and in use across all Greece at least until 420 B.C....and further.Mabye design has changed a bit but it...

If you are making up and inserting homosexuality by force in myths, making up events and customs in some societys makes lot of difference.
First of all that makes you a lair.
Second you missguide...

I found couple links where it says that beards had practical use, to absorb hits inside helmets.I will post it soon as I find them again!
Also i saw it on History channel but i think that does not...

Greece Total war??? Naaaah...just give me Rome Total War 2 :)

From what i saw in you post...tell your bro to change unerversity....or....mabye you should tell him to PAY ATTENTION ON CLASSES :)

Oh god....not again...........
Wiedespread Spartan pederasty is myth mostly made up by Athenians.
Even Aristotle confirmed that......who was btw homosexual.And Xenophon and Lycurgus also denies...

and a bit buggy also......

Technically shield is a weapon. It's a part of equipment just as sword and spear and it can be used as weapon for pushing and knocking down the enemy.
And when enemy is on the ground...the masses do...

-Proper overarm grip :) .....and DUST.......LOTS of dust when Hoplites clash.
I want my soldiers to drown in dust when they march or fight ......like in real wars.

-And if it's possible...

I liked the film very much.
Not accurate but thats not the point.
The film reminds me a bit on Homer's Iliad - epic and bloody.

Here is one photo brushed......

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/1017/thermopylaephoto02es8.jpg

My dear friend...if someone with vast knowledge and expirience not to mention practice, Ph.D etc. is not a .... "secure source" by your oppinion.....then tell me (by your standards) who is ?

Just...

Hoplite Shield Devices by Nicholas Sekunda :

Nicholas Sekunda was born in 1953. After studying Ancient History and Archaeology at Manchester University, he went on to take his Ph.D. in 1981. He...

Im wondering the same thing.

And the sadest thing.....here....
NONE of guys that disagreed with this had ANY REAL arguments or could prove otherwise, neither they had any real knowledge about ancient warfare.
So best thing...

ONE LAST THING:

I don’t agree with you guys cos you are WRONG:

Try to imagine yourself in tight phalanx formation:

You are holding your spear overhand (palm upwords - thumb away from enemy)...

"Simply don't download"??? That is you argument ???? This is you response to a mistake your team made??? :D :D :D
With this argument you are defending historic authenticness in hegemonia project?...

Well, well if that isn't a lil finger in the back.....thumb is not THAT long.......so.....i think yours precious example of overhand-like-throwing position bites the dust :)
As you clearly...

As for vases

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/1681/hoplitepilospr7.jpg

Thermopylae !?!

You my friend, watched too much ROME Series..........

I think new Guns And Roses album will come out first then this MOD.......
They also said...."soon" and that agony lasts still for 5 years.....