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Romans don't define Africa and who and who wasn't in Africa in historically. This is the problem with your statement, so it is wrong. Black Africans have always been in North Africa, primarily the...

Most people who claim North Africans as a different type than "Sub Saharans" are saying so due to Eurasian admixture. Most people are not calling these folks "indigenous" in the same way as other...

No what I am saying is that you folks are calling this "Afrocentric" and this is from the History channel:

https://youtu.be/AWdPdv1R-rE

Because according to you folks, no blacks could be...

The point is that all these various historic writings of different groups be it Arabs, French colonists, Romans or Greeks could not have been "Afrocentric" in describing black Africans in Africa....

DNA and all your so called science has nothing to do with this. You are trying to say that Romans, Greeks and other ancient folks who said blacks were in North Africa with their own eyes were lying...

You don't have any earthly idea what you are talking about. Africans have been moving across the Sahara for many thousands of years. The Sahara was wet and lush 10,000 years ago. And after that...

I don't think any of these folks are confused or "Afrocentric" because they claim black Africans have always been in Africa.
These people know clearly the difference between Africa and Israel. I...

The point is that all throughout history various European writers have commented on blacks in North Africa as BLACKS.
I can run through the many examples. This isn't about trick photography. ...

So are we seriously claiming that British news organizations are Afrocentric for saying there were black people there in ancient times?

Seriously?

As in it could not possibly be the truth?
...

Much of the costume seen in rennaissance paintings of Italy and other parts of Europe are based on Eastern styles of dress.
The Byzantines were very instrumental in bringing Eastern traditions to...

The video is stupid and ridiculous. Nobody "forgot" about the Sudanese or erased them from history. This is sensationalist western nonsense.
First off "Nubia" is not the term that the Ancient...

Universal archetypes seem to be the basis of most Christianity anyway with a large portion of it borrowing from older cultures.
So it wasn't just Isis I don't think, rather than Isis simply one of...

I don't work for History Channel and neither do you. So regardless of what you or I may think, the question was did the history channel actually consult any scholarship for how Hannibal was...

There are plenty of numismatic collections from the Phoenicians and Carthagenians on the net. All of them do not show "romanic", 'greek" or "semitic" looking phoenicians.

And as for symbolism,...

WOW. Talk about a thread off the rails. What on earth does Martin Bernal (who is dead) have to do with the history channel?

Does anyone here know what scholars were consulted by them when they...

The origin of the western "knightly clerics" goes back to the Romans IMO as they began fighting against other "infidels" including the Muslims.
Early on the distinction between "church and state"...

I don't disagree with your statement as a general point at a very high level but disagree on specific details. When you say "historiographical tradition" in reality you are talking of a body of...

Agreed. However, my understanding of it is this. Herodotus was called the "father of history" by Cicero in ancient times as a result of his work being a common reference for many later writers. ...

Thanks for that and I totally understand your point. But why should the good stuff be left in the academy?

I think much of these debates over what is "history" is a modern academic exercise and...

So suffice to say you haven't done anything but argued my "understanding" of the word history. I post references to scholars and the actual texts and you post straw men.

And as for reading Ionian...

The History is not an annal, its a history. Its the first history. We know where he gets his facts from, he tells us.



No they didn't. You haven't provided a single example that doesn't turn...

Actually looking at the actual histories themselves and scholarship on them, there are a lot of folks on both sides of the fence on this. Some view Herodatus' work as simply retelling old stories...

Double post.

I think you are getting caught up in semantics. So let me cut to the chase. Herodatus was not a Persian, so how could he write a history of Persia without having witnessed these events himself?...

Here is my source for the definition of history in the english language. Note, none of it implies or Herodatus as the basis of or beginning of history. I think you are mixing up things in trying...

I have consistently said that history starts with writing down facts of what occurred in a specific time or place. The emphasis being on the history of writing down facts as mundane as farming...

:laughter:

Nice try, but it is more like when I buy wine I expect it contains grapes and isn't just flavored and colored water.
History is always based on dry facts no matter how much "fluff" you...

What makes history is the recording of facts as I mentioned. If those basic facts aren't present as to the who, what, when or where, then no matter how narrative, poetic and "wordy", it isn't...

History is just a basic compilation of who, what, when and where. Anything over and above that is "narrative". I posted the story of Sinuhe as an example of a "narrative" story which included...

I think we are talking more about how history was recorded versus whether it was recorded or not. We know for a fact that history was recorded before the Greeks in the Fertile Crescent, Egypt and...

I don't buy the argument that the Persians, Egyptians or Babylonians didn't have historiography. In fact, in many ways it was these cultures that invented it. For example, kings lists were tied...

Yes. I meant to say the production of wootz steel for weapons would imply they had a well advanced metal making industry capable of producing various types of chain mail, probably by influence from...

I don't see how anyone could claim the ERE was "soft" especially since they fought so many wars for so long during their existence.
In fact, what would Western Europe be today were it not for the...

All these people are black African. You will see similar variations of phenotype all over Africa. So I don't understand how this is evidence of "racial mixture", when all human populations have...

I would argue the opposite as the painting you posted is reflective of the influence of the Persian/Caucasus cultures on Rome as opposed to the other way around.
The dress in that image is strongly...

India was a center of steel making in the early medieval era as a part of a process for making wootz steel that may have originated in central Asia or along the silk road.
There skill at making such...

Again, not supported by facts. The Saharan Neolithic is primarily based on pastoralism around local African Cattle breeds, not "Eurasian" cattle.
It is widely accepted that the last Saharan wet...

On the point of the Garamantes, as you said there is nothing that says definitively that they were all "white Eurasians". In fact the opposite is true, where there is plenty of evidence for the...

There is nothing there to see, this is not a "scholarly reference". No serious scholar claims that no blacks were in North Africa as a result of Eurasian invaders sweeping across North Africa and...

DP