Who should we fear A genocide from, christians or radical enviromentalist [total relism] vs [justicar]

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Originally Posted by justicar5

Biblical Archaeologists! KEY WORD: BIBLICAL! They are trying to prove the bible! They are paid for by fundamentalists , They are in fact not neutral sources! It's akin to linking David Icke to 'prove' that shape shifting lizards have taken over the world!

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besides your false analagy and your lack of understanding of worldviews, I can promise you these biblical archoligist did not plant thousands of bunred bodies create gods of furnaces and kill all these people and than hide them in the dirt:laughter:. Than as I said you did not care to check the refrences they give to athist archoligist who studied the places found:doh:

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Originally Posted by justicar5

The Cast system is HINDU not Buddhist, nice try there, wrong religion (this one has a god so falls under the sway of the same trap Christianity is in). And the rest looks like a re post of what you have already said, literally copy pasting your self. (Down to asking my age again, so I'll turn that around, how old are you?)

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that is very much on purpose as you dont respond to what I say, I dont know how you did not see it the first time:(.

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Originally Posted by justicar5

And then you link that terror supporting hate site AGAIN! (Unattributed again, so that's dishonest) Unless you cease I will have to assume your a dishonest debater and you concede.

Source on the Caste system: http://asianhistory.about.com/od/ind...astesystem.htm

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me sourcing from christianwebsites was never in rule, its a logical fallacy for you to try and do so, you cant respond to the ovius so you have to atack source logical fallacy. Everything I posted last post still apllies your argumnets fail misrabley and contridict your own beliefs you need to work out what you belive with logic.
If that day comes please post for me here, I have no idea what this disucion is were you are trying to take it, you have done nothing to suport orginal topic. You have not even attempted to defend your beliefs just ignore so what should we discuse? something specific maybe christanity vs buddism?

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Originally Posted by total relism

besides your false analagy and your lack of understanding of worldviews, I can promise you these biblical archoligist did not plant thousands of bunred bodies create gods of furnaces and kill all these people and than hide them in the dirt:laughter:. Than as I said you did not care to check the refrences they give to athist archoligist who studied the places found:doh:



that is very much on purpose as you dont respond to what I say, I dont know how you did not see it the first time:(.





me sourcing from christianwebsites was never in rule, its a logical fallacy for you to try and do so, you cant respond to the ovius so you have to atack source logical fallacy. Everything I posted last post still apllies your argumnets fail misrabley and contridict your own beliefs you need to work out what you belive with logic.
If that day comes please post for me here, I have no idea what this disucion is were you are trying to take it, you have done nothing to suport orginal topic. You have not even attempted to defend your beliefs just ignore so what should we discuse? something specific maybe christanity vs buddism?

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well I have stated my case for the original topic that topic was: Does the bible command Genocide. I showed that it clearly did. I mean I could just repost Deuteronomy I guess, but it wont change what it clearly says.

Or I could use Samuel I guess: 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

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Originally Posted by justicar5

well I have stated my case for the original topic that topic was: Does the bible command Genocide. I showed that it clearly did. I mean I could just repost Deuteronomy I guess, but it wont change what it clearly says.

Or I could use Samuel I guess: 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

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i have been drinking so im not sure how this will go:tongue:

first since you are completly unwilling to talk on your own false contridictory beliefs i shall post them first.


morality
"if it all happens materialistically whats the need for a god? cant I set my own rules? who owns me? I own myself".
Jeffery dahmer DVD documentary Jeffrey Dahmer the monster within
This is inconsistent with an evolutionary worldview in which there is no logical basis for "good" or "bad." By making such a statement, the evolutionist is actually borrowing morals from the Christian worldview and the Bible in order to claim something is "trickery."
Within a naturalistic, evolutionary worldview, morality is merely a matter of subjective opinion. So, whether something such as trickery or deception is wrong depends on each person—because it’s merely the result of chemical reactions in our brains.
I could just as easily say that this email we received is deceptive and full of wishful thinking. And if I get a big enough group together, we can decide that your definition of trickery is wrong. The combined random chemical reactions in our brains form the majority, which makes you wrong—at least until another majority comes along. Without any ultimate standard, we could go back and forth all day saying this is right or that is right.
As silly as this scenario sounds, it is one of the only arguments evolutionists have for anything that resembles morality. Absolute morals only make sense in a Christian worldview—they come from the One who knows what is good because He is the standard for good. The only One who fits that description is the God of the Bible, the Creator of the universe.


and I see this as unmoral, yes they believe in karma that is why when all those people died on tsunami it was Christians who helped because to them those people got what they deserved karma. The cast system is moral to you? wow, also how if all is karma can you say the babies being sacrificed is bad they get what they deserve as well as the Jews in ww2:doh::doh::doh::doh: yet you argue these things are wrong. You have so many inconstancies and contradictions how have you survived with this worldview so long?


you keep adding to this list


your whole argument against Canaanite child sacrifice is to say the bible is wrong about it, than claim the very same bible a few passages later is true about the conquest of Canaan itself.

This also shows your belief strange because you say god ordered child sacrifice, yet than says it detestable and worthy of judgment, how can the Canaanite god also be the god of the bible. .

I also want to ask you how you determine what is good or bad,what is evil or good, you cannot use anything from any religion in the world to base it on as they are all from a evil god and apparently some passages we can trust [the ones you that fit your beliefs] and the rest are unreliable. Is it just your opinion on what is good or bad? and how can you say what Hitler did was bad?


I want to show you how you argue,how old are you? just wanting to know.

herse you

you say- there are 20 letters in the english alphabet

someone shows there are 26

you ignore and say but I showed you there are 20 i showed all 20

someone again shows there are 26

you ignore no I made a statement there are 20 so there are 20 and I showed each individual one

somehow in your mind you only let in what you want to here.


i feel you are not untested in learning the bible but in making it fit into your preconceived ideas beliefs of what god must be,because you obviously have not read the bible given your exodus and Joshua quotes as well as you seem to still be saying god ordered rape and genocide. According to you every judge in America that has given death penalty is guilty of genocide or every police officer who killed a murderer every military officer england America for fighting in ww2 etc.


So I have been thinking, untill you notice your own worldview and how it will only allow information that fits your preconcived ideas beliefs about god you will never be able to have a fruitful discusion with me or anyone else for that matter.
Its A type of circular reasoning, you assume to be correct that god is evil and god is behind all religons of man, so than anything that contridicts that you discard as unreliable with no logic reason for doing so, this matains your belief of A evil god. In fact to do so you must contridict your own belief in god, he is good sometimes and bad sometimes, he is at war with himself in your view.


My thoghts and I could be wrong, are you dont want to admit to there is A god who judges, because you deep down know you are A sinner and dont want to ask forgivness maybe pride. Or you deep down are evil and like things like childsacrafice and dont think god should judge those people


for the duternomy post i will post this

God never comanded killing unbelivers, but god did judge sinful people.

4 "Do not think in your heart, after the LORD your God has cast them out before you, saying, ‘Because of my righteousness the LORD has brought me in to possess this land’; but it is because of the wickedness of these nations that the LORD is driving them out from before you.
Deuteronomy 9:4


Please read my replies before asking a question such as you have above as they directly reply to your claims and would anwser your question. Did america wage war on nonbelivers during ww2?or did they punish and stop a sinfull nation? cannaites burned children alive so did nazies. I belive while not good in itself, they both needed judgement. As I said in my post 400 years of child sacrafice is what it took for god to act

proclaiming, "The LORD, the LORD, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, 7 maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished
exodus 34 6-7


I think you would have a better argument had you said why did god allow people for 400 years burn alive there children.



all the cananites were not wiped out judges 2.3 1.21 27-28
battles reported in bible do not mention any non combatents killed.
all destroyed all killed tyipical languge of day and not literal.
conquest of cannan uses hyperbolic language such as "all"common in bible example, jesus says of the generation he was on earth in human form that it was a evil and adulterers generation and all were bad, yet other times he calls individuals ritcous.

sterotypical langage of ancent near east, atacks lilkly on militray forts and garisions, no archlogical evidence for people civilians in teritories such as jericho or Ai these were military forts p 175 is god a moral monster paul copan
"without predisposing the reader to asume anything further about age or gender use of woman young old is sterotypical exspression for the destruction of all human life in the fort" p 176 is god a moral monster paul copan.
the term [ir] cities were used as outpost whole civilian populations lived in countryside. letters between pharoah and cannanite leaders show them to be distnict from each other.p176 is god a moral monster paul copan

Josh 13 1-6 15.63 17.12 judges 1 19-34 shows not all were killed.Many forighners lived among Israel and participated in covenant ceremony josh 8 33,35. There is no mention of any woman or children being killed, other ancient near eastern documents mention this from the time period if it happened.
http://www.amazon.com/God-Behaving-Badly-Testament-Sexist/dp/0830838260

In Joshua 12, the victory list is given as 31 kings (generally petty kings of city-states) this would be around 70,000 people (assuming they all stayed around--a very dubious assumption in light of the international fear of Israel at the time).
But this 70,000 is against a base of close to 2 million people! (Israel was approximately 1.6 million at the time, and these nations are said to be 'more numerous' than Israel in a number of places--e.g. Deut 7.1,7.) This amounts to approximately 3.5% of the 'target population'. The Israelites were specifically told to execute those who remained in the cities (Deut 20.16) and those who hid in the Land--and therefore did NOT migrate out--Deut 7.20

same aplies to malakiets in samual 15 passage.

Your arguing against a world view I do not hold, so erm why keep reposting that repudiation? I mean I could argue with you about Shinto.. but since you don't follow that world view why?

You second point makes it clear that it was AT least ethnic cleansing: all Canaanite's must leave or be killed. That is also a crime against humanity.

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Originally Posted by Justice

Your arguing against a world view I do not hold, so erm why keep reposting that repudiation? I mean I could argue with you about Shinto.. but since you don't follow that world view why?

You second point makes it clear that it was AT least ethnic cleansing: all Canaanite's must leave or be killed. That is also a crime against humanity.

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I cant help but I thought it was you on post 9 that posted this

I am a Maltheist. There is a god and his (claimed) acts are behind the mask of every religion, the slaughter nad pain to appease a laughing god? All him, the same god orders the annhilation of the Canaanites as orders the ritual sacrifices in Aztec temples (tho most of it is his propaganda, shown to his credulous victims). HE can never be forgiven for those acts. He is the worst monster in the history of the universe.


so are you no longer a maltheist?



second part crime against humanity
ill link you to response
under post 26 under
I'm know going to repost all you ignore every post of the difference between your claims and what the bible says, soon ill start unspoiling more of this bit%h until you start to deal with my responses:tongue:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...=527050&page=2

(WARNING DRUNK POST) I am a maltheist, your 'do what ever the hell' argument is anti atheist.


Ahh so the language of the bible is not literal? So the world is older than 6k years? Or is that part literal and not the kill them all part?

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Originally Posted by justicar5

(WARNING DRUNK POST) I am a maltheist, your 'do what ever the hell' argument is anti atheist.


Ahh so the language of the bible is not literal? So the world is older than 6k years? Or is that part literal and not the kill them all part?

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But it applies to your beleif as well, unless your basing your morals on a evil god?

The language should be understood as it was written at time, psalms poetry genisis history conquest statements sterotypical langage of ancent near east read the bible these "all" atatments are made thorghout not literally all, and history. I do not claim the conquest happend over millions of years and it evolved from a fight between two lions:tongue:. It means just what it says. The orginal meaning of it is true, it is ovius from the narrative. All nations in are at this time used same language not just isreal so its false to apply todays standard back than.

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Originally Posted by total relism

But it applies to your beleif as well, unless your basing your morals on a evil god?

The language should be understood as it was written at time, psalms poetry genisis history conquest statements sterotypical langage of ancent near east read the bible these "all" atatments are made thorghout not literally all, and history. I do not claim the conquest happend over millions of years and it evolved from a fight between two lions:tongue:. It means just what it says. The orginal meaning of it is true, it is ovius from the narrative. All nations in are at this time used same language not just isreal so its false to apply todays standard back than.

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For God to be evil, and to be rebelling against good..there must be a good force in the universe, one that Yahweh hides and defiles, one that may be caught in glimpses, in people doing good acts despite what the monster of the desert tells them. Did it create the world? Does it matter? There is something that makes people who actually examine the bible feel disgust over what it says, for it makes the Holocaust perfectly fine, as nothing in this life matters (The same argument applied to justify the sacking of Canaan and the other cities applies to the Holocaust, the 'evil' went to hell just like they deserved, and the good went to heaven so where better off...think about that argument for a bit, it's what 'justifies' the killing of children in the OT, and if it worked then, unless you subscribe to moral relativism, it must still work now).

I do not know what you are getting at with the two lions and millions of years....


And if we can't apply today's standards back then, it must mean that morality has changed..but how can that be? Yahweh (according to you) laid out perfect morality, so if we are more moral now...he was wrong? He, the perfect, the unchanging..changed his mind?

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Originally Posted by Justice

For God to be evil, and to be rebelling against good..there must be a good force in the universe, one that Yahweh hides and defiles, one that may be caught in glimpses, in people doing good acts despite what the monster of the desert tells them. Did it create the world? Does it matter? There is something that makes people who actually examine the bible feel disgust over what it says, for it makes the Holocaust perfectly fine, as nothing in this life matters (The same argument applied to justify the sacking of Canaan and the other cities applies to the Holocaust, the 'evil' went to hell just like they deserved, and the good went to heaven so where better off...think about that argument for a bit, it's what 'justifies' the killing of children in the OT, and if it worked then, unless you subscribe to moral relativism, it must still work now).

I do not know what you are getting at with the two lions and millions of years....


And if we can't apply today's standards back then, it must mean that morality has changed..but how can that be? Yahweh (according to you) laid out perfect morality, so if we are more moral now...he was wrong? He, the perfect, the unchanging..changed his mind?

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First what do you want this debate to be? you seem to have no topic I'm really lost for last page or so? can we debate your belief maltheist vs Christian? or what?


I think you have misunderstood completely, first im sorry but I dont know what your trying to say above you seem to think god in the bible [a book you clearly have not read] seems to say its ok to kill children, when in fact as i pointed out to you there could not be a god more against this as this is the main reason god brought judgment down on Canaan for child sacrifice. The rest I have no idea you set up a straw man god in your mind and than apply it to the bible.


How do you get your morals what decides what is right and wrong? and what if Canaanites think it is OK to kill babies by burning them alive why is that wrong to you?and how can you say if they believe it is right and not evil or bad what makes you right about it?

since you ignore i will post again


morality
"if it all happens materialistically whats the need for a god? cant I set my own rules? who owns me? I own myself".
Jeffery dahmer DVD documentary Jeffrey Dahmer the monster within
This is inconsistent with an evolutionary worldview in which there is no logical basis for "good" or "bad." By making such a statement, the evolutionist is actually borrowing morals from the Christian worldview and the Bible in order to claim something is "trickery."
Within a naturalistic, evolutionary worldview, morality is merely a matter of subjective opinion. So, whether something such as trickery or deception is wrong depends on each person—because it’s merely the result of chemical reactions in our brains.
I could just as easily say that this email we received is deceptive and full of wishful thinking. And if I get a big enough group together, we can decide that your definition of trickery is wrong. The combined random chemical reactions in our brains form the majority, which makes you wrong—at least until another majority comes along. Without any ultimate standard, we could go back and forth all day saying this is right or that is right.
As silly as this scenario sounds, it is one of the only arguments evolutionists have for anything that resembles morality. Absolute morals only make sense in a Christian worldview—they come from the One who knows what is good because He is the standard for good. The only One who fits that description is the God of the Bible, the Creator of the universe.


and I see this as unmoral, yes they believe in karma that is why when all those people died on tsunami it was Christians who helped because to them those people got what they deserved karma. The cast system is moral to you? wow, also how if all is karma can you say the babies being sacrificed is bad they get what they deserve as well as the Jews in ww2:doh::doh::doh::doh: yet you argue these things are wrong. You have so many inconstancies and contradictions how have you survived with this worldview so long?


you keep adding to this list


your whole argument against Canaanite child sacrifice is to say the bible is wrong about it, than claim the very same bible a few passages later is true about the conquest of Canaan itself.

This also shows your belief strange because you say god ordered child sacrifice, yet than says it detestable and worthy of judgment, how can the Canaanite god also be the god of the bible. .

I also want to ask you how you determine what is good or bad,what is evil or good, you cannot use anything from any religion in the world to base it on as they are all from a evil god and apparently some passages we can trust [the ones you that fit your beliefs] and the rest are unreliable. Is it just your opinion on what is good or bad? and how can you say what Hitler did was bad?


I want to show you how you argue,how old are you? just wanting to know.

herse you

you say- there are 20 letters in the english alphabet

someone shows there are 26

you ignore and say but I showed you there are 20 i showed all 20

someone again shows there are 26

you ignore no I made a statement there are 20 so there are 20 and I showed each individual one

somehow in your mind you only let in what you want to here.


i feel you are not untested in learning the bible but in making it fit into your preconceived ideas beliefs of what god must be,because you obviously have not read the bible given your exodus and Joshua quotes as well as you seem to still be saying god ordered rape and genocide. According to you every judge in America that has given death penalty is guilty of genocide or every police officer who killed a murderer every military officer england America for fighting in ww2 etc.


So I have been thinking, untill you notice your own worldview and how it will only allow information that fits your preconcived ideas beliefs about god you will never be able to have a fruitful discusion with me or anyone else for that matter.
Its A type of circular reasoning, you assume to be correct that god is evil and god is behind all religons of man, so than anything that contridicts that you discard as unreliable with no logic reason for doing so, this matains your belief of A evil god. In fact to do so you must contridict your own belief in god, he is good sometimes and bad sometimes, he is at war with himself in your view.


My thoghts and I could be wrong, are you dont want to admit to there is A god who judges, because you deep down know you are A sinner and dont want to ask forgivness maybe pride. Or you deep down are evil and like things like childsacrafice and dont think god should judge those people

Except that it is stated that all the children of Canaan must die. And biblical scholars argue that doing so was a great and righteous act. http://www.reasonablefaith.org/slaug...the-canaanites

Now will you please address the command to genocide, in your own words please, not appealing to authority by ripping off another genocide justifying 'faith site'(support your case with it sure don't make badly formatted and hard to read copy pastes your entire argument. Oh and please source the quote spam you keep doing, if you fail to do so again I will consider you to have forfeited. )


And you KEEP BRING UP AN ANTI-ATHEIST QUOTE if you do that gain I will consider you to have forfeited, unless I can use Mein Kampf as a source for your views, (in fact that's an insult to mein kampf it is less brutal and savage than the bible, which I have read, you however appear not to have done so, for an education of the real nature of Yahweh the Pentateuch and Revelations are ideal, as they detail in depth gods past actions and future plans for the annihilation of free willed humanity. )

You love the idea of your torture god, perhaps you want to spend eternity watching women being impaled on spikes and babies burned (for the bible never says children are innocent) to titillate your lust? I wish there was a good who judges, he could start with the millions of paedophiles in his church. (Tho he obviously approves of that as he got an 11-12 year old girl pregnant to bear his son, so add paedophile rapist to his list of atrocities)

All your god deserves is a trillion years of torture for every human life he has taken.

First what do you want this debate to be? you seem to have no topic I'm really lost for last page or so? can we debate your belief maltheist vs Christian? or what?


How do you get your morals what decides what is right and wrong? and what if Canaanites think it is OK to kill babies by burning them alive why is that wrong to you?and how can you say if they believe it is right and not evil or bad what makes you right about it?

since you ignore i will post again


morality
"if it all happens materialistically whats the need for a god? cant I set my own rules? who owns me? I own myself".
Jeffery dahmer DVD documentary Jeffrey Dahmer the monster within
This is inconsistent with an evolutionary worldview in which there is no logical basis for "good" or "bad." By making such a statement, the evolutionist is actually borrowing morals from the Christian worldview and the Bible in order to claim something is "trickery."
Within a naturalistic, evolutionary worldview, morality is merely a matter of subjective opinion. So, whether something such as trickery or deception is wrong depends on each person—because it’s merely the result of chemical reactions in our brains.
I could just as easily say that this email we received is deceptive and full of wishful thinking. And if I get a big enough group together, we can decide that your definition of trickery is wrong. The combined random chemical reactions in our brains form the majority, which makes you wrong—at least until another majority comes along. Without any ultimate standard, we could go back and forth all day saying this is right or that is right.
As silly as this scenario sounds, it is one of the only arguments evolutionists have for anything that resembles morality. Absolute morals only make sense in a Christian worldview—they come from the One who knows what is good because He is the standard for good. The only One who fits that description is the God of the Bible, the Creator of the universe.


and I see this as unmoral, yes they believe in karma that is why when all those people died on tsunami it was Christians who helped because to them those people got what they deserved karma. The cast system is moral to you? wow, also how if all is karma can you say the babies being sacrificed is bad they get what they deserve as well as the Jews in ww2:doh::doh::doh::doh: yet you argue these things are wrong. You have so many inconstancies and contradictions how have you survived with this worldview so long?


you keep adding to this list


your whole argument against Canaanite child sacrifice is to say the bible is wrong about it, than claim the very same bible a few passages later is true about the conquest of Canaan itself.

This also shows your belief strange because you say god ordered child sacrifice, yet than says it detestable and worthy of judgment, how can the Canaanite god also be the god of the bible. .

I also want to ask you how you determine what is good or bad,what is evil or good, you cannot use anything from any religion in the world to base it on as they are all from a evil god and apparently some passages we can trust [the ones you that fit your beliefs] and the rest are unreliable. Is it just your opinion on what is good or bad? and how can you say what Hitler did was bad?


I want to show you how you argue,how old are you? just wanting to know.

herse you

you say- there are 20 letters in the english alphabet

someone shows there are 26

you ignore and say but I showed you there are 20 i showed all 20

someone again shows there are 26

you ignore no I made a statement there are 20 so there are 20 and I showed each individual one

somehow in your mind you only let in what you want to here.


i feel you are not untested in learning the bible but in making it fit into your preconceived ideas beliefs of what god must be,because you obviously have not read the bible given your exodus and Joshua quotes as well as you seem to still be saying god ordered rape and genocide. According to you every judge in America that has given death penalty is guilty of genocide or every police officer who killed a murderer every military officer england America for fighting in ww2 etc.


So I have been thinking, untill you notice your own worldview and how it will only allow information that fits your preconceived ideas beliefs about god you will never be able to have a fruitful discussion with me or anyone else for that matter.
Its A type of circular reasoning, you assume to be correct that god is evil and god is behind all religions of man, so than anything that contradicts that you discard as unreliable with no logic reason for doing so, this matains your belief of A evil god. In fact to do so you must contradict your own belief in god, he is good sometimes and bad sometimes, he is at war with himself in your view.


My thoughts and I could be wrong, are you dont want to admit to there is A god who judges, because you deep down know you are A sinner and dont want to ask forgiveness maybe pride. Or you deep down are evil and like things like childsacrafice and dont think god should judge those people

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Originally Posted by justicar5

Except that it is stated that all the children of Canaan must die. And biblical scholars argue that doing so was a great and righteous act. http://www.reasonablefaith.org/slaug...the-canaanites
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I will refer you to post 47
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...=527050&page=3
or any post dealing with conquest I have made many, Craig agrees know with copan last I herd and me.

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Originally Posted by justicar5

Now will you please address the command to genocide, in your own words please, not appealing to authority by ripping off another genocide justifying 'faith site'(support your case with it sure don't make badly formatted and hard to read copy pastes your entire argument. Oh and please source the quote spam you keep doing, if you fail to do so again I will consider you to have forfeited. )
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I will refer you to any number of post I labeled under conquest or genocide.
post 24 seems a great place to start
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...=527050&page=2
unspoiled that :wub:*

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Originally Posted by justicar5

And you KEEP BRING UP AN ANTI-ATHEIST QUOTE if you do that gain I will consider you to have forfeited, unless I can use Mein Kampf as a source for your views, (in fact that's an insult to mein kampf it is less brutal and savage than the bible, which I have read, you however appear not to have done so, for an education of the real nature of Yahweh the Pentateuch and Revelations are ideal, as they detail in depth gods past actions and future plans for the annihilation of free willed humanity. )
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the qoute applies to you unless you can answer me were you decide right from wrong and were you get your morals from. I think it is clear who and who has not read bible.

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Originally Posted by justicar5

You love the idea of your torture god, perhaps you want to spend eternity watching women being impaled on spikes and babies burned (for the bible never says children are innocent) to titillate your lust? I wish there was a good who judges, he could start with the millions of paedophiles in his church. (Tho he obviously approves of that as he got an 11-12 year old girl pregnant to bear his son, so add paedophile rapist to his list of atrocities)

All your god deserves is a trillion years of torture for every human life he has taken.

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see this is why im lost you seem to want to rant about things let me know you think god is so and so I wanted to have discussion on beliefs etc or any specific topic but you wont let me you ignore when I try, the fact you claim god raped Mary is all i need to point to to show what I'm dealing with here:(. You take what you want from bible than immediately apply it to something completely different than come to conclusion based on it. Again its the worldview of your as I have said over and over you cannot allow a god of love so he must be evil, so no matter what is shown you will ignore and only accept what fits your worldview or twist it to fit I should say.

ok I accept your forfeit. You have done it again.

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Originally Posted by justicar5

ok I accept your forfeit. You have done it again.

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really that was a forfeit:laughter: sounds like excuse, question why for me posting something related to your argument you dint respond to is considered enough to forfeit? not to mention it is not part of any rules we made, you meanwhile ignore everything and its OK? I have had to repost like 10 times. Why should that not be forfeit?

I am however ok with ending this, I dont even know what the topic is anymore, your all over and dont reply so cant stay on one subject.

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Originally Posted by total relism

really that was a forfeit:laughter: sounds like excuse, question why for me posting something related to your argument you dint respond to is considered enough to forfeit? not to mention it is not part of any rules we made, you meanwhile ignore everything and its OK? I have had to repost like 10 times. Why should that not be forfeit?

I am however ok with ending this, I dont even know what the topic is anymore, your all over and dont reply so cant stay on one subject.

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because you spammed a wall of text I had already responded to which was off topic. The topic was: Does the Bible command Genocide, it clearly and unarguably does your responses have been a massive attempt to change the subject/ justify genocide( Which proves my point about Christians, it does in fact support murdering children and raping women, as ordered to by god). Ergo you are a dishonest actor in this matter.

Also your bible provides no evidence for gods 'love' it is the same 'love' as an abusive father, despoiling his children again and again and threatening eternal torture if they resist..real loving there.


Oh and the madman in africa? He is a chrisitan, one of the few on earth who actually follow gods instructions as laid out in the bible.

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Originally Posted by justicar5

because you spammed a wall of text I had already responded to which was off topic. The topic was: Does the Bible command Genocide, it clearly and unarguably does your responses have been a massive attempt to change the subject/ justify genocide( Which proves my point about Christians, it does in fact support murdering children and raping women, as ordered to by god). Ergo you are a dishonest actor in this matter.

Also your bible provides no evidence for gods 'love' it is the same 'love' as an abusive father, despoiling his children again and again and threatening eternal torture if they resist..real loving there.


Oh and the madman in africa? He is a chrisitan, one of the few on earth who actually follow gods instructions as laid out in the bible.

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I qouted a paraghrph qoute and that is spamming? you have never responded to it that is why I keep posting it:hmm:. Your only responce being it does not apply to you yet as I said it does unless you get your morality on what is right and wrong from what you call A evil god. You may think im spaming because I post what you ignore hoping praying you may want to discuss, as you and I know the bible commands never rape or genocide as I have posted over and over yet you ignore my responces and remake claim,that is why I keep reposting:doh:. Again your last two paraghphs can be exspalined here


i feel you are not untested in learning the bible but in making it fit into your preconceived ideas beliefs of what god must be,because you obviously have not read the bible given your exodus and Joshua quotes as well as you seem to still be saying god ordered rape and genocide. According to you every judge in America that has given death penalty is guilty of genocide or every police officer who killed a murderer every military officer england America for fighting in ww2 etc.


So I have been thinking, untill you notice your own worldview and how it will only allow information that fits your preconcived ideas beliefs about god you will never be able to have a fruitful discusion with me or anyone else for that matter.
Its A type of circular reasoning, you assume to be correct that god is evil and god is behind all religons of man, so than anything that contridicts that you discard as unreliable with no logic reason for doing so, this matains your belief of A evil god. In fact to do so you must contridict your own belief in god, he is good sometimes and bad sometimes, he is at war with himself in your view.


My thoghts and I could be wrong, are you dont want to admit to there is A god who judges, because you deep down know you are A sinner and dont want to ask forgivness maybe pride. Or you deep down are evil and like things like childsacrafice and dont think god should judge those people



genocide respond to content or I will just keep reposting.

I will refer you to any number of post I labeled under conquest or genocide.
post 24 seems a great place to start
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=527050&page=2
unspoiled that :wub:*


your argument fits here

When I was a child, my father beat me, left my mom, and once killed a defenseless animal with his bare hands. With that information you could be quite justified in saying that my father was an abusive pig of a man.
But you’re missing some information. He physically corrected me when I lied or stole. He left Mom because he worked long hours to financially take care of his beloved family. When he found a helpless dying animal on the side of the road, he put the poor animal out of its misery, and it grieved him to do so. The missing information shows that my dad was a very loving man
http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...create-mankind




rape we have to go all the way back to first post
25 In those days there was no king in Israel;(I) everyone did whatever he wanted

this is why it is good not to listen to atheist websites who cut off at v 24 and don't include last verse otherwise it just looks like you have never read the bible and unquestionably believe what anyone tells you. These site could never be misrepresenting the bible could they be?


know if you go back to my responce this is why I posted v 25 with it:doh:. The last verse of chapter and book they convinetly left out, that by the way follows 24:thumbsup2.

10 So the assembly sent twelve thousand fighting men with instructions to go to Jabesh Gilead and put to the sword those living there, including the women and children. 11 “This is what you are to do,” they said. “Kill every male and every woman who is not a virgin.” 12 They found among the people living in Jabesh Gilead four hundred young women who had never slept with a man, and they took them to the camp at Shiloh in Canaan.
13 Then the whole assembly sent an offer of peace to the Benjamites at the rock of Rimmon. 14 So the Benjamites returned at that time and were given the women of Jabesh Gilead who had been spared. But there were not enough for all of them.
15 The people grieved for Benjamin, because the LORD had made a gap in the tribes of Israel. 16 And the elders of the assembly said, “With the women of Benjamin destroyed, how shall we provide wives for the men who are left? 17 The Benjamite survivors must have heirs,” they said, “so that a tribe of Israel will not be wiped out. 18 We can’t give them our daughters as wives, since we Israelites have taken this oath: ‘Cursed be anyone who gives a wife to a Benjamite.’ 19 But look, there is the annual festival of the LORD in Shiloh, which lies north of Bethel, east of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem, and south of Lebonah.”
20 So they instructed the Benjamites, saying, “Go and hide in the vineyards 21 and watch. When the young women of Shiloh come out to join in the dancing, rush from the vineyards and each of you seize one of them to be your wife. Then return to the land of Benjamin. 22 When their fathers or brothers complain to us, we will say to them, ‘Do us the favor of helping them, because we did not get wives for them during the war. You will not be guilty of breaking your oath because you did not give your daughters to them.’”
23 So that is what the Benjamites did. While the young women were dancing, each man caught one and carried her off to be his wife. Then they returned to their inheritance and rebuilt the towns and settled in them.
24 At that time the Israelites left that place and went home to their tribes and clans, each to his own inheritance. 25 In those days Israel had no king; everyone did as they saw fit.

OK know hopefully you see this is just telling of what happned not what god wanted, the entire book is about what happens with no goverment anarchy what people will do, the whole book is full of isreals sin that god does not want. You than claim it supports rape show you have never even read the bible.



OFF TOPIc
I love how you get upset at me for off topic when most your first post and 90% of thread is off topic you post,as I said I cant be on topic with you you dont read responces.

things you ignore


morality
"if it all happens materialistically whats the need for a god? cant I set my own rules? who owns me? I own myself".
Jeffery dahmer DVD documentary Jeffrey Dahmer the monster within
This is inconsistent with an evolutionary worldview in which there is no logical basis for "good" or "bad." By making such a statement, the evolutionist is actually borrowing morals from the Christian worldview and the Bible in order to claim something is "trickery."
Within a naturalistic, evolutionary worldview, morality is merely a matter of subjective opinion. So, whether something such as trickery or deception is wrong depends on each person—because it’s merely the result of chemical reactions in our brains.
I could just as easily say that this email we received is deceptive and full of wishful thinking. And if I get a big enough group together, we can decide that your definition of trickery is wrong. The combined random chemical reactions in our brains form the majority, which makes you wrong—at least until another majority comes along. Without any ultimate standard, we could go back and forth all day saying this is right or that is right.
As silly as this scenario sounds, it is one of the only arguments evolutionists have for anything that resembles morality. Absolute morals only make sense in a Christian worldview—they come from the One who knows what is good because He is the standard for good. The only One who fits that description is the God of the Bible, the Creator of the universe.


and I see this as unmoral, yes they believe in karma that is why when all those people died on tsunami it was Christians who helped because to them those people got what they deserved karma. The cast system is moral to you? wow, also how if all is karma can you say the babies being sacrificed is bad they get what they deserve as well as the Jews in ww2:doh::doh::doh::doh: yet you argue these things are wrong. You have so many inconstancies and contradictions how have you survived with this worldview so long?


you keep adding to this list


your whole argument against Canaanite child sacrifice is to say the bible is wrong about it, than claim the very same bible a few passages later is true about the conquest of Canaan itself.

This also shows your belief strange because you say god ordered child sacrifice, yet than says it detestable and worthy of judgment, how can the Canaanite god also be the god of the bible. .

I also want to ask you how you determine what is good or bad,what is evil or good, you cannot use anything from any religion in the world to base it on as they are all from a evil god and apparently some passages we can trust [the ones you that fit your beliefs] and the rest are unreliable. Is it just your opinion on what is good or bad? and how can you say what Hitler did was bad?


I want to show you how you argue,how old are you? just wanting to know.

herse you

you say- there are 20 letters in the english alphabet

someone shows there are 26

you ignore and say but I showed you there are 20 i showed all 20

someone again shows there are 26

you ignore no I made a statement there are 20 so there are 20 and I showed each individual one

somehow in your mind you only let in what you want to here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop#Debates

Used by Christians to bury the truth of there faith (that Hitler's actions where perfectly in tune with the bible)

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Originally Posted by justicar5

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop#Debates

Used by Christians to bury the truth of there faith (that Hitler's actions where perfectly in tune with the bible)

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I would say gish used them to show how impossible evolution is, evolutionist complain he brings up to many problems:tongue: maybe they should get a new faith:hmm:. I however did not do so see my first post, these are things you ignore that have been building up slowley, I keep saying respond to them please or i will start reposting, all these things have been braght up multiple times slowly asking to respond.

Hitler thing again i dint care much to discuss withyou because your worldview has so much power over you that discussion cannot happen, the fact you believe Hitler and the Nazis were doing what the bible says is telling enough.


So I have been thinking, until you notice your own worldview and how it will only allow information that fits your preconceived ideas beliefs about god you will never be able to have a fruitful discussion with me or anyone else for that matter.
Its A type of circular reasoning, you assume to be correct that god is evil and god is behind all religions of man, so than anything that contradicts that you discard as unreliable with no logic reason for doing so, this matains your belief of A evil god. In fact to do so you must contradict your own belief in god, he is good sometimes and bad sometimes, he is at war with himself in your view.


My thoughts and I could be wrong, are you dont want to admit to there is A god who judges, because you deep down know you are A sinner and dont want to ask forgiveness maybe pride. Or you deep down are evil and like things like childsacrafice Nazi exterminations etc and dont think god should judge those people

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Originally Posted by total relism

I would say gish used them to show how impossible evolution is, evolutionist complain he brings up to many problems:tongue: maybe they should get a new faith:hmm:. I however did not do so see my first post, these are things you ignore that have been building up slowley, I keep saying respond to them please or i will start reposting, all these things have been braght up multiple times slowly asking to respond.

Hitler thing again i dint care much to discuss withyou because your worldview has so much power over you that discussion cannot happen, the fact you believe Hitler and the Nazis were doing what the bible says is telling enough.


So I have been thinking, until you notice your own worldview and how it will only allow information that fits your preconceived ideas beliefs about god you will never be able to have a fruitful discussion with me or anyone else for that matter.
Its A type of circular reasoning, you assume to be correct that god is evil and god is behind all religions of man, so than anything that contradicts that you discard as unreliable with no logic reason for doing so, this matains your belief of A evil god. In fact to do so you must contradict your own belief in god, he is good sometimes and bad sometimes, he is at war with himself in your view.


My thoughts and I could be wrong, are you dont want to admit to there is A god who judges, because you deep down know you are A sinner and dont want to ask forgiveness maybe pride. Or you deep down are evil and like things like childsacrafice Nazi exterminations etc and dont think god should judge those people

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The Gish gallop is used to throw up so many spurious points that it is impossible to respond, and your world view doesn't allow you to see the violence and hate at the core of your faith.

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Originally Posted by Justice

The Gish gallop is used to throw up so many spurious points that it is impossible to respond, and your world view doesn't allow you to see the violence and hate at the core of your faith.

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anyone could reply to his arguments that is what debates are for:whistling he should not be blamed for bringing up may problems in his time given why not? its not like evolutionist dint try the same in the debates. But your right my view sees gods judgment on evil deeds because my worldview believes the whole bible not a passage here and there and ignore the rest.

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Originally Posted by total relism

anyone could reply to his arguments that is what debates are for:whistling he should not be blamed for bringing up may problems in his time given why not? its not like evolutionist dint try the same in the debates. But your right my view sees gods judgment on evil deeds because my worldview believes the whole bible not a passage here and there and ignore the rest.

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Except by bringing up PRATT (Points Repudiated A Thousand Times) in a stream, you drain the will of your opponent to repudiate again, you want to poor out empty ideas and hate filled insanity? Get in the pulpit you would make a perfect pastor call for rape and murder and blind hate (as the bible does) and you would even be an honest one. You want a debate, raise a few clear points (and your points arr by no means clear) and await a response, a wall of text and insulting emotes is (text you didn't even have the decency to write yourself but plagiarised from other sources without giving them credit) an attempt to make me give up in disgust, not have a debate.