Nordic Realism

Alright, it occurred to me that many of the changes that I will want to implement in the future are going to be quite radical. They will be meant primarily for fulfilling my own view of how the north should be implemented historically. (Such as cutting away places like the southernmost 25% of the map.) Therefore, I am releasing a small, lightweight version before I get into the serious editing, for people who do not share my views on the matter. (I assume this will be just about everyone, by the time I am finished.) It contains only basic changes, intended to be more accurate. Here they are:

Current progress:

• West Gotland province renamed to Västergötland.
• Skara moved northeast.
• East Gotland province renamed to Östergötland.
• Kobenhavn renamed to Roskilde and moved slightly west.
• Warberg renamed Lödöse and moved north.
• Region borders adjusted in these areas.
• Skara's port was replaced by the port at Lödöse.
• Finland renamed Österland.
• Turku renamed Åbo and moved westward.
• Small church added to Skara.
• Dirt roads added to Uppsala.
• Diplomatic relations altered. Specifically:
  
  • Denmark-England relations worsened.
  • Denmark-Scotland relations improved.
  • Denmark-Sweden relations improved.
  • Russia-Sweden relations improved.
• Visby moved to western part of Gotland; nearby terrain edited.
• Skara is now bigger that Lödöse.
• I have removed some dense forest that was blocking a possible road between Lund and the new location of Lödöse.
• Toke is now close to the amber.
• Kalmar is now east, one spot. This fixed a new issue with the roads.
• Armies also moved.
• I have created the Limfjord, but because the overall difference is minor, and because it was closed off allegedly in 1200, there is no western entrance. I might have removed it altogether.
• I have changed the Swedish family tree. The one source that I could find that gave ages listed Helena at 30, Inge at 25. I couldn't find Ragnvald's age, so he is 5. Because there was no longer a faction heir, I added Philip Halstensson, Inge's nephew. I dindn't add in the other Halstenssons, so there is no relation. If Inge dies, it is possible that the family line will be shifted. You might want to go through and replace some of the family line with Albath's submod's family line.
• I am including two new loading bars, one with the Swedish flag and one with the Danish flag. They're in the loading_screens folder. To use them, just rename the one you want to loading_bar.tga.

To install this version, you should be able to just replace all of the current files of the same name and location in the HRR_07 mod folder. If you have troubles getting it to work, just post here.

I will now be posting the updates for progress on the extended version. Here is what I have done so far:

• I have completed the family tree. Now included are:
  
  • Stenkil
  • Inga
  • Halsten
  • Inge
  • Helena
  • Inge the younger
  • Filip
  • Kristina
  • Ragnvald
  
  I tried to be historical as possible in both the naming and the ages; however, I found nothing on Halsten's wife so I named her Ulrika, age 31.
• Alright, now here the controversy begins. Right off the bat, the Svear and the Geats will be portrayed as though they were a single nation. There are several reasons for this. For one thing, many Swedish kings of the time ruled over both the south and central Sweden. King Inge himself, in addition to many members of the House of Stenkil, came from Västergötland. Sverker came from Östergötland, and conquered Västergötland. This close unity was occasionally disturbed; nevertheless, Sweden starts under King Inge, and controls Uppsala, Kalmar, and Skara.
• I have rebalanced the Swedish regions. In Uppsala, there is no church. Many units were re-positioned to Skara, where King Inge is. The population of Uppsala was decreased. Sweden now has 2000 florins.
• I have started work on the Blot-Sven script. I will later revise it.

Note: Due to various troubles, such as computer problems most likely brought on by Windows 7 Beta, and such as the fact that I am in the last 6 weeks of school and the work is intensifying, it will take me a while to make any significant progress on this.

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Also, because Canute was planning another invasion of England before his death in 1086, either there should be a condition of war between Denmark and England at the start, or they should simply be very unfriendly in relations.

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A state of war would not be fitting for 1080. As you said, he was planning this invasion in the later 1080s, but it never came to live. The feature for a Danish king to claim the Crown of Canute will most likely be implemented. We have already implement the possibility for the House of Wessex to try a glorious return. For Denmark it might be something along this line, that could be: as soon as a Danish King landed in England he will get the Crown of Canute and a state of war between Danemark and the Normans will be triggered.

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Anyways, version 7 is great, and I am happy that you kept Sweden, but please don't cut them in version 8!:)

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Sweden will be kicked out, if not in 0.8 than in a later version. We desperatly need faction slots and Sweden is not contributing enough to the game.

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Originally Posted by konny

A state of war would not be fitting for 1080. As you said, he was planning this invasion in the later 1080s, but it never came to live. The feature for a Danish king to claim the Crown of Canute will most likely be implemented. We have already implement the possibility for the House of Wessex to try a glorious return. For Denmark it might be something along this line, that could be: as soon as a Danish King landed in England he will get the Crown of Canute and a state of war between Danemark and the Normans will be triggered.

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I suppose that's a good point; I think I'll just lower the relation levels between the two, if they aren't already low enough.

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Sweden will be kicked out, if not in 0.8 than in a later version. We desperatly need faction slots and Sweden is not contributing enough to the game.

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I know, Sweden's demise in this mod is inevitable. However, that's what was said about version 7, and Sweden is still around. Sweden will eventually be replaced, but I intend to implement a future submod that focuses only on the northern 75% or so of the map, where I will add in Sweden when that happens. In the mean time, I am only hoping that their removal is delayed until after version 8.

I would suggest, however, that a balance should be kept in the north. At this time, Norway was arguably more important than Sweden, and they are already implemented in Kingdoms. They would make a good replacement for Sweden, although I assume that they are not being considered.

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Originally Posted by Scandinavisksoldat

I suppose that's a good point; I think I'll just lower the relation levels between the two, if they aren't already low enough.

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The relations are under constant changes throughout the game, of course. Internaly we had tested a version in which Denmark is holding Berwick and neutral to England but allied to Scotland. That way the relationship between Denmark and England dropped by every attack the English made on Scotland, with the result that at one point the Danish attacked England.

But again it turned out that this was beyond the abilities of the AI, because Denmark concentrated so many ressources on her isolated position in England that it neglected her homelands, not conquering any lands in Scandinavia and even losing Jütland to the Oborites.

So, this entire "Crown of Canute" concept will be first of all an option for the player playing Denmark, the AI seems not to be able to handle it in any satisfing way.

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I know, Sweden's demise in this mod is inevitable. However, that's what was said about version 7, and Sweden is still around. Sweden will eventually be replaced, but I intend to implement a future submod that focuses only on the northern 75% or so of the map, where I will add in Sweden when that happens. In the mean time, I am only hoping that their removal is delayed until after version 8.

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This not so much a result of an opinion for or against Sweden but of the ressources we have to make new factions.

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I would suggest, however, that a balance should be kept in the north. At this time, Norway was arguably more important than Sweden, and they are already implemented in Kingdoms. They would make a good replacement for Sweden, although I assume that they are not being considered.

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Norway would in fact be the better choice than Sweden. It would also hold Dumbarton and Ulster, for example. But it will not happen. Our "wishlist" for new factions would be: Novgorod, Kärnten, Flandres, Toulouse and Aquitaine. But we only have two faction slots open for assignment, that is Sweden and the Mongols; so no chance for other possible factions to make it on that list.

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Originally Posted by konny

Our "wishlist" for new factions would be: Novgorod, Kärnten, Flandres, Toulouse and Aquitaine. But we only have two faction slots open for assignment, that is Sweden and the Mongols; so no chance for other possible factions to make it on that list.

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Nice wish list!

Although it is unclear to me, why Carinthia is a good choice.
Unlike other wishlist candidates:

Technically, Carinthia woould require the map seriously altered ? Enlarging the part of it, or otherwise cutting off from nearby lands.
And historically, although a Duchy from 10th century onward, it was never of much import among stem duchies in HRE, correct me if I m wrong. Imo, I am happy with it being kind of merged into Austria atm.

Carinthia would be interesting for the start of the campaign only: The Eppensteiner held that, the Margraviate of Verona, the Patriarchat of Aquileia and they were (Imperial Counter-)Bishops of Passau in the 1080s. While Bavaria, Austria and Milan would be siding with the Pope, this one would be an Imperial foothold in the opposition's backyard.

However this will be finally displayed in-game, Carinthia will certainly not make it in as a full faction. The others on the list would be way to important.

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Originally Posted by konny

Carinthia would be interesting for the start of the campaign only: The Eppensteiner held that, the Margraviate of Verona, the Patriarchat of Aquileia and they were (Imperial Counter-)Bishops of Passau in the 1080s. While Bavaria, Austria and Milan would be siding with the Pope, this one would be an Imperial foothold in the opposition's backyard.

However this will be finally displayed in-game, Carinthia will certainly not make it in as a full faction. The others on the list would be way to important.

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Just curious, but is Carinthia higher on the list than Sweden or Norway?

A rather pointless question if neither is high enough on the list to be kept in the long run.

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Originally Posted by konny

A rather pointless question if neither is high enough on the list to be kept in the long run.

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Okay, but why exactly is Carinthia on the list?

It was an idea to replace Austria with Carinthia because for the year 1080 Carinthia would have been more important as a duchy, while Austria was a Margraviate and vassal of Bavaria. But in the long run Austria is of more siginifcance (and because of the constant wars with Bohemia, also more interesting) than Carinthia. Adding Carinthia as an extra faction would be a no-go, because there are others that are more desirable.

Cool! Downloading now!
Sounds like this is a nice piece of work.

Oi, is there a thread to discuss the new factions? I vote Aquitaine and Novgorod.

Nice to see someone working on Scandinavia! :)

Any way to integrate this into .8a?

nice 1