So as the OoG, who do you think it's best to target first? Also, Dain's Halls.

So out of Eriador, the High Elves or the Dwarves who do you go gunning for first and why? I've tried playing the OoG several times on VH/VH, but have never had much success with them - ordinarily I take out Imladris as this removes a major thorn from your side (otherwise I'd imagine the HE are going to keep harassing you at Coldfells and Gram, and it gives you access to high level buildings so you can finally get a diplomat). Ideally then I'd like to go after the Dwarves, as they have no one else to keep them occupied but you in the west (and they often like to start trouble from the east when Dain's Halls fall) but of course Eriador start sticking their nose in and then you have too many fronts to manage at once. Even if you did manage to take the Blue Mountains, I'd imagine you'd then have to deal with both the HE and Eriador simultaneously so I'm not sure this plan would be very sound.

As a side note how do you deal with Dain's Halls? For me it always falls to the Dwarves, and then they start harassing Gram, but my troops are always engaged in a westerly antagonism and so I find it pretty hard to protect Gram because of this (as most of the settlements are also on the western side of the Misty Mountains and so supply lines aren't great). I've tried protecting Dain's Halls with my own archers, and I've tried keeping a decent garrison in Gram - but both of these approaches are frustrating as they eat up money that you'd rather use taking settlements, and both fail after a while (the Dwarves keep sending more and more troops your way, and you can't replenish them at the same rate). Even if you took Dain's Halls from the Dwarves, I'd imagine then they'll just start harassing you for it every fifteen or so turns until you're ready to expand to the east and bring the fight to them, and so it wouldn't really be a solution to this problem. Ideally the OotMM would just hold their own, but I'd doubt they'd ever do that.

I guess how I normally go about strategizing is play all the different permutations until I find one that fits, still having more guidance from the off is always good as then you can slim down your approaches - so in other words if attacking one of these factions also really didn't work for you that would be good to know too. I think the optimal situation after taking Imladris would be to make peace with the Dwarves, focus on Eriador, then the High Elves if they're causing difficulty (in my experience they usually ask for a ceasefire when you no longer have borders with them) - and finally focus on the Dwarves at my leasure. Still, I've never found a good way of managing this and I would guess such an approach probably isn't possible (which is why I said I would actually focus on the western dwarves first above) so I'd like to hear what other offensive strategies others have adopted.

I'd probably wait until I can fully support a full stack of decent troops as well as still being able to mass recruit if needed without crippling myself. By then, if the Dwarves have taken Dain's Halls, strike there and Wrakyaburg if it's still rebel. That is only for emergency recruitment so it doesn't matter if SE take it. Just sue for peace before they attack Dain's Halls.

If the Dwarves haven't attacked the Grey Mountains, head south to Imladris. From ther attack Eriador and send another army in from the north.

Overall, turtle a bit, then go for whichever is the more immediate threat. Also, make sure your border with Eriador is well guarded but otherwise, they are the second priority.

It's best to turtle up for a while. I've seen first-hand that 100 or so Elven archers can slaughter hundreds of Snaga and hardly lose a man, so swarming out right off the bat is an easy way to get yourself killed. I don't start expanding until around turn 40 or 50, then I attack Eriador. Typically, they send their armies downward to fight Dunland and Isengard, and with Mordor and OotM keeping the Elves busy, you can pretty much strike into their lands unscathed, if you have a good army.

In all my games OOtM lost versus the lorien/silvan elves/dwarves combination. So I think it's vital for OOG to at least get rid of the High Elves (namely Imladris, after that they're no trouble for quite a while! ;) ).
That can easily be done by focusing on wargs and using the awesome Rhudaur Warriors(also your starting trolls should be used to flank!). After that, you may choose, hit the weak Eriador or defend against it while you expand to the east. Personally I always try to be everywhere at once which works out pretty well as long as you know when to retreat from a base to retake it later.

There really is no need to turle. :)

It really does help to support OotM too. They're weak early on, but by turn 80 or so in one campaign of mine, they'd taken almost all of the Elven lands next to them and several Eriador settlements all the way down to Dunland, and they had about 4-5 full stacks in their territory. They're a strong ally in the later stages of the game.

I always hit Eriador first since HE aren't a real threat due to the fact that the only city they have near you is Imladris, and the Dwarves tend to take their sweet time doing anything. not to mention the dwarves almost always focus on OoMM and not OoG.

Jojobobo, you came to the right place :thumbsup2 The Orcs of Gundabad are my favorite faction to play as because of the multitude of options you can take to expand your empire!

I'll answer the Dains Hall question first:

After spending the first 7-8 turns building economic buildings, immediately build some warg cages. Dains Halls won't be taken usually until well into turn 20-30 from my experience. The dwarves may attack sooner, but the AI usually gets beaten the first time they seige a city, so no worries. If the OotMM still own Dain's Halls, I would send maybe 5-7 units of war riders to camp near the city (make sure a general is with them so they don't rebel!) for when the dwarves attack next. Now the AI almost never uses dale cavalry for some reason, so the dwarevs will be defenseless. Allow them to seige Dain's Halls (you don't want to be attacked by them) and then on the next turn attack the seiging army from behind and sandwich them between your wargs and the OotMM. This next part may seem cold, but when the battle starts try to let the dwarves attack your allies so their backs are to you. Then do what AP cavalry does and wipe the floor with them! :D Wargs are perfect dwarf killers ;)

Now for who to attack first:

This is where Gundabad becomes the best evil army experience. You're starting position is safely nestled away in teh top of the map, and your closest enemy is Eriador, who is not a threat unless they become Arnor. You should never let Arnor rise again, so take a vital settlement from Eriador, like Weathertop (easiest to defend plus the best recruitment spot and base of command for a war with eriador) so they don't have the requirements. Eriador has a ton of generals, most can be bought off if you have the cash, so always expect cavalry in almost every battle. You'll see a lot of Breeland Militia, who should lose to Snaga Stalkers 8/10 one on one, and their range units are not too impressive either. Basically, it's like fighting a faction of rebel units :P Beware of Merchant Milita/Cavalry and Dunedains! Merchants will need to be routed or else they'll rip through your ranks, and dunedain should be charged by trolls(+fodder) and wargs. AGandalf-led stack roaming around as well, so don't expect seige after seige. Their roads allow for quick allocation of units, so if you conquer them first, you'll have an easier time fortifying. As said by others, Eriador usually attacks Isengard before turning their eyes on you, so feel free to build up a bit before going to war with them.

The High Elves will dominate you unless your armies are at least 3-1 and with some units of wargs. The High Elves are the biggest challenge for any orc faction, up there with a late game Mordor. If you don't take Rivendell ASAP, the OotMM will eventually. I've been attacked at Coldfells by them before, so my advice is to get a big army of snagas and just continue to hold the city under seige and STARVE them out :) Rivendell is an excellent money maker and should have some nice buildings for you to use :thumbsup2 After taking Rivendell the High Elves will not bother you until you reach their borders to the West.
BUUUUUT should you conquer it instead of letting the OotMM, the latter will probably have a harder time against the dwarves and eriador.

The dwarves.....hmmm, you can really do whatever you want with the dwarves haha. They'll try to take the village up at the northernmost top of the map...it begins with a "p" and sounds Russian :P But luckily there's a bridge and you can use it to your advantage before they reach the village. If you attack the blue mountains, the High elves will get you as soon as you finish off the dwarves, and eriador will probably follow. The western dwarves don't even get their best units until much much later anyway, so you'll only see a half stack every once in a while, sometimes they'll ignore you and fight the elves instead but don't count on it. The eastern dwarves will actually be an easier time until you get to erebor since you have the OotMM backing you up. But one time I let them take the grey mountains, all the way up to my doorstep, and then I took the settlements for myself immediately after :D Good times. The only real problem with the eastern campaign is having to worry about Dale and Rhun/Silvan Elves. Yes, I've had Rhun attack me before, it was a very difficult battle before we realized we didn't even need to be fighting.

This still only scratches the surface of the freedom you have with Gundabad though. Despite their less than stellar units and moderate economy, its a very fun campaign where you need to decide how you want to play. Turtling with them is okay for the first 50 or so turns, but an Orc faction always needs to expand to keep up with the huge supply of units you'll need to stand a chance against dwarves and elves. You will lose a lot of units and probably quite a few battles, but its not like mordor where you spam until you get olog hai and uruks to curbstomp everybody, you are a weaker faction and you need to get organized and survive! :D The biggest thing about OoG is that their areas have a high merc replenishment rate, so use the Rhudaer axemen to your advantage. Its not all Trolls and Wargs, but they still are vital, wargs probably more so than trolls. Feel free to pillage and ransom, because your orc generals need high dread to route their enemies, just don't go back on deals and alliances. Keep your reputations with neutral and allies high enough to get trade rights and whatever else you need :)

Now....conquer those filthy hobbitses!

I always leave Rivendell to OOTMM. You need a full stack to take it and you just can't afford that. That full stack could be used to burn half of Eriador.
I usually have 1 army at Wrakyaburg helping OOTMM against dwarves and one destroying Eriador. If all goes well, Eriador dies in 40 turns. Then I take out western dwarves and after that I march on Erebor. When Erebor falls and dwarves are dead I'm pretty much unstopable.

Hey all, thanks for the advice. It seems like the general consensus is that it's a good idea to take Imladris, and then turtle a bit until turn 40 or so (something I usually do anyway, it's nice to make a bit of money and start fielding strong units as soon as possible), so I'll definitely give that a try and then take on Eriador.

Thanks in particular to Lucky Pistol for the lengthy and detailed response (+rep), I really like your idea of defending Dain's Halls with wargs and it's not something that I'd thought about. Honestly, I'd much rather have Dain's Halls in the hands in the OotMM early game so I don't have to worry about eastern attacks, and this seems like a perfect strategy along these lines. Later when I'm up to the challenge I can let the Dwarves take it, re-take it in a couple of turns whilst they're weakened, and then press east. Plus, your advice about the factions in general seemed very well thought out too!

I just wonder what you're gonna fight the western enemies with if you move 5-7 Wargs to the eastern front. It's not like wargs are recruitable in high numbers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RuleBritannia

It really does help to support OotM too. They're weak early on, but by turn 80 or so in one campaign of mine, they'd taken almost all of the Elven lands next to them and several Eriador settlements all the way down to Dunland, and they had about 4-5 full stacks in their territory. They're a strong ally in the later stages of the game.

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Forgot to highlight how correct RuleBritannia is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eryn

I just wonder what you're gonna fight the western enemies with if you move 5-7 Wargs to the eastern front. It's not like wargs are recruitable in high numbers.

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If I focus on warg breeders from the off at Carn Dum I should be able to get a fair few early on; as Lucky Pistol remarked (and from personal experience) the Dwarves usually only take Dain's Halls around turn 30, which should be enough time to gather up enough wargs to deal with them (and produce some for the west). Upkeep I don't feel is an issue, the OoG in my experience have been fairly wealthy early game - I've had a full stack running around at about turn 10 before and still been in the pink.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eryn

I just wonder what you're gonna fight the western enemies with if you move 5-7 Wargs to the eastern front. It's not like wargs are recruitable in high numbers.

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If you get attacked by anyone other than the High Elves before turn 30, then that's just bad luck or you have a submod with an overly aggressive AI. Besides, you can keep good relations with eriador for a few turns and have them focus on Isengard :thumbsup2

There's just too many different ways to play :D

I personally conquered Imraldris first. Fortified Gundabad. And then sent my Chieftain to eradicate Eriador. I'm playing it right now.

Hey guys seems this is on the subject of the OoG, am I right in thinking that they do not have a family tree? or am I being stupid? how are you supposed to get new generals ect. ? (sorry I am very new to TATW)

adoption and man of the hour events fro heroic victories , don't worry about this your family/general's always becomes your biggest money sink in this mod if your not extra careful or should that last point be n some of the sub mods ... :hmm:

Like what knight said. It'll feel weird for Orcs to have family trees for me. I normally just adopt the generals with high command and other stats, so that the money is worth it.

Thanks for the info guys!

You should never let Arnor rise again, so take a vital settlement from Eriador, like Weathertop (easiest to defend plus the best recruitment spot and base of command for a war with eriador) so they don't have the requirements.


Doesn't work: AI's requirements are far more lenient than your own. Arnor has a 10% chance to show up each turn after Turn 90 if the Lake Evendim region is in the AI's control, providing I've parsed the code correct:

monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType turks
and IsFactionAIControlled
and I_TurnNumber >= 90
and RandomPercent < 10
and I_SettlementOwner Lake_Evendim = turks
;set_faction_banner
;faction turks
;banner byzantium
;end_set_faction_banner
;give_everything_to_faction byzantium turks false
set_religion turks numenorian
change_population_religion turks numenorian 90 northmen
destroy_buildings turks academic true
destroy_buildings turks castle_academic true
set_event_counter union_accepted 1
historic_event ai_arnor_reunited event/arnor_reunited.bik
terminate_monitor
end_monitor

Really? I thought the 10% script was only for Sauron showing up :hmm:
I guess I've just been lucky. Sorry about the bad info guys :(