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I was just giving my point of view and a proposal. Im not going to threaten you or anyone else if you don't do want i want. Im not going shout or swear nor am i disrespecting other people, countries or hstory. I respect everyones decision, whether i agreed with it or not.
I was just speaking in general and also refering to the "removing aragon proposal". I disagree with both proposal because they are both important factions, none of them have any reason to be out, nor would I chose Aragon over Portugal or Portugal over Aragon because that would then be a completely unfair choice from me, both sides are important in their own ways.
The issue about removing Portugal or Aragon, is out of question for me.
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i can live with this, although i would still love to see another faction in the east. There are just not enough factions there really:no: So thats why i would like to see another faction, preferrably Georgia (don't know their unit rooster) but i chose them because i would hate to see an almost identical islamic faction differed only by name.
I don't mean to be disrespectful but im just trying to give my opinion and find a solution that will be accepted by the majority of the SS community and for game play reasons; the game is about conquest and battles (really the rest are just add ons) and if i wanted to play a game not focused on battles then i would be playing civilization. Historically speaking Portugal and Ireland didn't conquer much compared to other factions and like i stated above, the game should be about conquest and battles. Of course there can always be a Portugal that recreates the roman empire but this would be historically inaccurate, and many people look to this game for historic accuracy (not that i mind but im just giving views of other people). Although of course the game isn't real life and not everything can be implemented like reality, so a line must be marked to create a balance between historic accuracy and game play.
Gameplay reasons: Playing a faction that with it's position and neighbour factions makes for a competitive game(like many other in the mod), also, they unit roster is excellent.
You should also have in mind that there are other factions that historically conquered aproximately the same territory as Portugal, and having similar numbers of provinces, and if you have in mind the entire game period 1080-1500, then Portugal conquered more than most factions. As for the historical premise of being military active and participant in many battles, then yes Portugal indeed was, from naval battles to several battle with Castile and the Moors from since it's independence. Switching alliances and wars were frequent between these 3 factions.
Besides, this mod goes in the alternative history route, this automatically gives any faction in the mod reason to conquer whatever they want, even if their position makes it difficult for them to successfull everytime, furthermore, I've already seen Portugal expanding several time through north africa and northern territories, and these events are relatively common.
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No you might be asking yourself, well Georgia didn't conquer that much at all. But the reason Georgia is being proposed really is because of game play reasons such as holding the turks down in the middle east for some time, and of course new factions have to be placed once in a while to make different and arouse interest.
This doesn't suport any view of removing Portugal, furthermore, there are still faction slots available if we merge the timurids and merge the Templars with KoJ, thus allowing for Serbia and Georgia possibly for instance, which in my personal opinion I want them in the mod. Furthermore, one good reason for Portugal to be in the game is because it creates a balance of power in the peninsula, had it not been this way (because I already did several test in previous versions, thus my wish for Aragon to be in) then the faction balance of power in the peninsula would them become severely unbalanced, giving Castile Leon the large and most frequent advantage over Aragon and the Moors specially.
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Well i guess thats your view but really not mine. As i said before the game is mostly about territorial conquest. You win by conquering the most not y having the most prosperous city or economy in the world. This is something that we use to achieve the original purpose, conquest.
See how i put "beat". It means that really i do not agree that you are better than the other because you can conquer more. No this is not necessarily true in real life, but in the game it is.
This isn't much a matter of being "better", but a matter of being important, being important enough makes it necessary to be represented.
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Speaking game wise;
you say that by having porutgal it represents the Iberian peninsula more accurate. Well there are many places in the game that aren't represented that well either and would still not be represented that well compared to Iberia if Portugal was taken out. But as i see it Castile and Aragon already represent this good enough. The peninsula in the game is too small to want to have so many factions. Moors don't need 3 opponents in the peninsula. If your objective is to have christian battles in the peninsula then it can be done between aragon and Castile. Portugal is therefore not necessary for either of these, unless you want a greater Christian conflict in Iberia which in this case it seems pointless since the map is too small.
I just don't see your reasons to stick with portugal...you've given me historical reasons (which do not satisfy my point of view and don't seem like a good enough reason, but hey i respect it either way) but you haven't given me any game play reasons yet.
Due to it's historically importance having Portugal is necessary for a correct portray of the peninsula. As for historical reasons, I can't name them all, but if you want examples then please read some of my previous examples. As for other locations, this is heavily debatable, and there are certainly some locations which lack factions, however, to remove Portugal from the mod would make Iberia one of the less correct represented locations in the map, it's importance makes it necessary to be there.
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I agree with this statement. Really if they don't expand and die pretty soon then what is the point in having them. They are just an obstacle pretty much like rebels and therefore we waste a faction slot that could be used on another faction. So having rebels might not change it that much.
You can't although compare them with the same game play reasons such as poland since poland, although they don't expand that much, actually create a necessary barrier, while Portugal don't do any of these since the moors and Castile can attack each other without the need to attack Portugal first. And since the objective in this struggle of the reconquista is the reconquest of Spain by the moors then a war between Portugal and Spain is not and should not be that important.
No, your statement is very incorrect, I've long done test on this region for KK and Moors almost always attack Portugal first, and Castile is closely behind them in this aspect. POrtugal's gamepaly reason in the peninsula is actually mostly of balance than of anything else since I've already done extensive testing concerning this in for previous versions.
It's not this simple, and wasn't that simple. Castile asked for Portugal's help several times in the reconquista period and Portugal only ended it's period of Iberian conquest from the Moors in the 1240's. From the 1240's (and also before) to the end 14th century Portugal went through a lot wars with Castile and the Moors, being alliance exchanges very frequent, and lets not forget the 1383-1385 crisis, and their participance in european conflicts such as the 100 years wars which they were crucial for England's survival. From 1400's onwards Portugal was actively expanding beyond the Iberian peninsula, something no other Iberian faction would for generations to come, having Portugal then being militarely very active against the Moors in north africa (winning and loosing various conflicts), only to in the 1480's to become the richest state in Europe and with the strongest currency in Europe.
I think this is more than enough reason for them to be in. Portugal's fits like a glove in terms of impotance in the mod, the more you progress from 1080 to the 1500's the more important they become, becoming effectively the main world power in the 1500's.
I fail to see how you're so downplaying the importance of Portugal with little reason and constantly mentioning other factions as reasons for Portugal to be out, when most of these very factions you mention (no disrespect) didn't even do as much as Portugal nor were as much important (overhaul speaking) in from 1080 to 1500.
Factions are chosen because of their overhaul importance and impact, and Portugal fits in both cases and is among the most important factions, many other factions that don't, are being referenced as your main reason for Portugal to be out, along with the need to accurately portray other region, well the same is necessary in Iberia, you need Portugal in the mod in order to have Iberia accurately protrayed and also having one of the most important factions in the game, not to mention gameplay balance in the peninsula. While other factions are indeed desirable and necessary to represent other regions with the same level of accuracy as Iberia for instance, this shouldn't come at the expense of Portugal, who's substitution has little or no reason. You simply can't have them all in the mod, the faction limit doesn't allow it, however, practically all factions that already existing in mod have their right to be in it because they already were important enough to be in the mod.
We can try to stretch the faction limit as much as we want and in the end I would be very satisfied to see Georgia and Serbia, or other factions be in the mod, but it's without reason to wish for an important faction to be removed, one that ironically is among the most important in the mod (and an excellent unit roster as a good bonus).
These are my two cents. Remember, I don't want Aragon's removal for Portugal's benefit or vice versa, since I never agreed to such a point of view (and if my explanations gave the impression of this then I apologise), because none have any reason to be out, it's out of question for me to remove any Iberian faction for the benefit of other factions, speciffically Portugal and Aragon.
Wether people's personal preferences are others, in the end people have to learn that these faction's importance gives them no reason to be out, they were chosen from the start because of their importance, having in mind the global sceme of things.