Polish?

Looking at your faction list and being pm-ed to discuss the list before it is finalized, I just want to sudgestfew things.

Neither Abodrites, Veleti, nor Pomeranians are Polish. The first two are Polabians and the latter are descendants of present-day Kashubes.

Also, I am not sure that Croatians were Christians this early. Carinthians might have been due to their vicinity to Franks, but Crotians should be double checked.

Lastly, you have left out a faction most important in cultivation and spread of Christianity in Slavdom (perhaps after Bulgaria) Nitrian Principality. Churches were built decades before the arrival of two missionary brothers and its chieftain elites held a more amiable position toward Christianity. At the start of the frame it would still be largely pagan.

Those are mi few bits before making the list final. I hope this helps in clearign few things up.

Just when we needed a Slavic person for questions about these factions from modern Poland.

Do you think we need all 4 of these factions? Which would you omit for a more Eastern faction? And what do you think on the horse of Polish regions?

I'd say possibly Pomeranians, but I think we need a couple factions there so the Franks don't go rape eastwards.

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Originally Posted by JANOSIK007

Also, I am not sure that Croatians were Christians this early. Carinthians might have been due to their vicinity to Franks, but Crotians should be double checked.

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In this time Croats began to convert to christianity. You must know that this isn't totally realism mod, and for some faction that have obscure early past we'll improvise.

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Originally Posted by polak966

I'd say possibly Pomeranians, but I think we need a couple factions there so the Franks don't go rape eastwards.

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I agree.

And about horse, I think polak966 knows more about the pre-feudal warfare in this region. However, if we take into consideration other slavic armies about which I have read something (like the Croatians), then they were large warbands involving more of the population (compared to the small dark age armies in the West) with a core of the ruling elite (chieftains). Horses were not limited to only this elite. For instnace Croatian army was third cavalry.

Remember the Franks will be attacked from every direction, will have internal problems and have strong Lombard and Saxon emergences to attend to, the Saxon one will basically separate the 4 'Polish' factions and the Franks. The Franks I hope will be a very hard faction to be successful with.

So if we removed the Pomeranians to open a faction slot, what faction in the East should come in?

And where the Bohemians of any importance at this time, all I ever heard at this period were the Movarians and Nitria?

The Principality of Nitra was conquered by the Movarians. I'm doing a Movarian thread now, albeit with limited knowledge, but im getting some help off my brother's University Library.

Bohemia was quite important, I think, even though it was overshadowed by Moravia.

If Lithaunia is out, what we need game-wise would be something in this area
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/1...opy3py3ep3.png

Pomerania (or possibly Veleti) could be replaced with the Pechenegs. Lithuania could be replaced with the Curonians.

Why are we discussing these things on the public forum anyway? No-one outside the team participates, and we should seriously make the development a bit less transparent.

Could simply move this into the development one, it just evolved as such.

problem is that it is not posible to change religion of faction right? so cro did start to convert to christianity in this time, and this process lasted some time and at the beginning of 9 century most of them (guess, elite certanly) was christian. so there is no point for us to make them pagan. this would be totally incorect in later stages of mod.

It's too bad that we can't change religions though. Personally, I feel it's more important to reflect what things were like back in whenever the mod starts, and then let things develop from there, rather than making compromises like letting a faction that was actually pagan at the time be christian because they became christian later on irl. I mean, what if they hadn't? So yeah, it's sucks that religions are static. It'd be kinda cool to play a catholic faction in vanilla that converted to islam, for example. Hehe.

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Originally Posted by Beiss

It's too bad that we can't change religions though. Personally, I feel it's more important to reflect what things were like back in whenever the mod starts, and then let things develop from there, rather than making compromises like letting a faction that was actually pagan at the time be christian because they became christian later on irl. I mean, what if they hadn't? So yeah, it's sucks that religions are static. It'd be kinda cool to play a catholic faction in vanilla that converted to islam, for example. Hehe.

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yes but some compromises must be done. the first mention of croatian name is related to christianity (stone inscription in church -branimir dux croathorum), the frist known name of knez (comes) in this area was found carved in stone baptistery (viseslav). historians in fact dont know name of any pagan knez in this area. the very beginning of croatians as a nation (not meaning in modern sense) is tied to christianity.

DELETE~

Ops

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Originally Posted by matko

yes but some compromises must be done. the first mention of croatian name is related to christianity (stone inscription in church -branimir dux croathorum), the frist known name of knez (comes) in this area was found carved in stone baptistery (viseslav). historians in fact dont know name of any pagan knez in this area. the very beginning of croatians as a nation (not meaning in modern sense) is tied to christianity.

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that's not really true, there are sources of pagan princes. A source for these people's names isn't only their own writing but also the accounts of outside forces, in this case most likely the Franks.

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Originally Posted by polak966

that's not really true, there are sources of pagan princes. A source for these people's names isn't only their own writing but also the accounts of outside forces, in this case most likely the Franks.

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you are right about other slavs. but not about croatia. franks and the "accounts of outside forces" are just talking about "slavs". name "croatia" is first used by cro themselves.

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Originally Posted by GodlyAvatar

The Principality of Nitra was conquered by the Movarians. I'm doing a Movarian thread now, albeit with limited knowledge, but im getting some help off my brother's University Library.

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60 years into the game. Nitra was certainly more important than some factions already on the list and it wasn't the only one conquered by Moravia (The Great Moravian Empire included Bohemians, Slovaks, Sorbs, Pannonian Slavs, Vistulans, and Silesians. The city of Nitra is metioned as an important trading center, far overshadowing any other towns in the region in size and importance. That is why greedy Moravians wanted it so much.

For religion conversion system, i have one idea. I don't know if this idea is possible to realise but I hope that it is. So, maybe we can implement something similar to barbarian invasion. Maybe you can decide in first turns will you build the church, or raze it and viceversa. In BI that was possible.