The Stainless Steel Traits & Ancillaries Improvement Project (SSTAIP) - Merged into SSMAP!

hi man its great idea add some traits and scripts for improve game. i must say if u wanna see great inspiracion go check Bellum Crucis they are mistress in new traits, anciliaries, secondary quests- more kind of agents etc etc. unluckilly their AI is hand in hand bad with like their diplomatick system a buged ai on camapign map. but it is my biggest wish, compilate their( or similar) traits, anc., script improvements etc with strategic map and Ai, diplomacy of SS. If it will be done it will be best mod ever without oponent. And i think if can somebody done it thats exactly u guys bcoz unlike Bellum Crucis creators u listtening a wishes of fans and trying to do it, they not. So i am your big fan in this project and if u will need help, with everything what i can do i will help u. maybe in betatesting. :) lets go :D gl

i forgot one great thing on their mod and its something like your RC- if u do it like a part of mod or available submod in setup it will be rly great. and together with traits like supplies, general's health etc if it works well its rly good fun.

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Originally Posted by RollingWave

I havn't had a chance to keep up with all this, but some suggestions that I've thought about doing...

A. wife traits should effect all married charactor of all faction, it's pretty obviously dumb that only Non-Muslim royalties married to princeess are effected by their wifes ;) obviously this can lead to other interesting traits, such as Muslim Cumans may have multiple wife trait or something (increase chance of having children, maybe lead to decrease in personal secruity though as Osama Bin Laden would attest :P)

B.Cultural trait, for example cumans named charactors would inherently have movement bonus, Byzantiums building bonus, Italian trade bonus etc etc.

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Sorry for the delay RW, here goes my comments:
A. Agreed, but characters can have only one wife in the game (they can't even remarry), and honestly I don't really see the point in a Multiple Wife trait when it cannot be presented properly.
B. The Royal Blood traits already cover this but they are for family members only. However, converting it to a Cultural trait would make these traits accessible for all characters in a nation, which could be a good idea. :thumbsup2

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Originally Posted by Maroslav

hi man its great idea add some traits and scripts for improve game. i must say if u wanna see great inspiracion go check Bellum Crucis they are mistress in new traits, anciliaries, secondary quests- more kind of agents etc etc. unluckilly their AI is hand in hand bad with like their diplomatick system a buged ai on camapign map. but it is my biggest wish, compilate their( or similar) traits, anc., script improvements etc with strategic map and Ai, diplomacy of SS. If it will be done it will be best mod ever without oponent. And i think if can somebody done it thats exactly u guys bcoz unlike Bellum Crucis creators u listtening a wishes of fans and trying to do it, they not. So i am your big fan in this project and if u will need help, with everything what i can do i will help u. maybe in betatesting. :) lets go :D gl

i forgot one great thing on their mod and its something like your RC- if u do it like a part of mod or available submod in setup it will be rly great. and together with traits like supplies, general's health etc if it works well its rly good fun.

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I'm aware that BC has some nice features but my priority is to create some new content instead of just taking it from another mod. Cool ideas are of course taken into consideration, but Stainless Steel always has to offer something new and something more, that's what made this mod a fans' favourite. :yes:

Anyway, I appreciate your kind offer, we'll see about that soon once the new map has been finalized!

Bc has something what SS miss :) i think make some similar traits and features like in BC isnt anything unoriginal and if u combine more and it will work that will be only better :cool: gl with that :) btw: the beauty of their news and improvements is one works with second and it make player rly more carefull than only go and conquering but i mean more carefull in some lmits not something overpowered or weak. they have it nicely balanced but unluckily in my mean they have brutally unbalanced Ai and diplomacy which do steps based only on few elements. so u are better in this

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Originally Posted by RollingWave

I havn't had a chance to keep up with all this, but some suggestions that I've thought about doing...

A. wife traits should effect all married charactor of all faction, it's pretty obviously dumb that only Non-Muslim royalties married to princeess are effected by their wifes ;) obviously this can lead to other interesting traits, such as Muslim Cumans may have multiple wife trait or something (increase chance of having children, maybe lead to decrease in personal secruity though as Osama Bin Laden would attest :P)

B.Cultural trait, for example cumans named charactors would inherently have movement bonus, Byzantiums building bonus, Italian trade bonus etc etc.

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Yeah I've been wanting to make Dread more desirable as a trait because right now the only good thing is that enemies might flee a bit quicker in battles- I figure I'll eventually try and make Dread traits more conducive for wealth traits since misers and spendthrifts tend to be a bit more severe. The chivalry traits would then make population happier but also those possessing them spend more freely and don't pay as much attention to where their wealth comes from letting corruption grow unwatched.

Steppe characters having a movement bonus seems essential while Muslim characters until Renaissance and university/hospital buildings are more widespread are more likely to get health traits(I'm not sure about a surgeon ancillary for battle deaths- perhaps a single 1 giving 10% so they can't be stacked).

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Originally Posted by Ichon

Yeah I've been wanting to make Dread more desirable as a trait because right now the only good thing is that enemies might flee a bit quicker in battles- I figure I'll eventually try and make Dread traits more conducive for wealth traits since misers and spendthrifts tend to be a bit more severe. The chivalry traits would then make population happier but also those possessing them spend more freely and don't pay as much attention to where their wealth comes from letting corruption grow unwatched.

Steppe characters having a movement bonus seems essential while Muslim characters until Renaissance and university/hospital buildings are more widespread are more likely to get health traits(I'm not sure about a surgeon ancillary for battle deaths- perhaps a single 1 giving 10% so they can't be stacked).

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Yes, I agree completely with the Dread part, in the sense that right now Chivalry is insanely more preferablle which doesn't make much sense. . And yeah having high chiv character more likelying to have loose pockets seems like the most logical solution. also maybe give Dread character higher chance of having law traits while generally increasing the law issue like I do in HURB (more buidligns with negative law penalty) would help too.

As for health traits, the one big fundemental problem with health trait in M2TW is tha it directly effects bodyguard size, and given how much Bodyguard tend to play into a battle one need to be careful here. a Byzantium General with a Fine armour ancillary already = super unit. if we're going to have more health bonus more counter bonus need to be in place as well. if anything battle heal rate is actually less imbal since the rate of healing is not particularly high to begin with anyway and you actually need to win the battle first.

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Originally Posted by Ichon

Yeah I've been wanting to make Dread more desirable as a trait because right now the only good thing is that enemies might flee a bit quicker in battles- I figure I'll eventually try and make Dread traits more conducive for wealth traits since misers and spendthrifts tend to be a bit more severe. The chivalry traits would then make population happier but also those possessing them spend more freely and don't pay as much attention to where their wealth comes from letting corruption grow unwatched.

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That sounds like a good solution so long as there is only one general to a settlement. But - correct me if I'm wrong here - it's hardcoded to select the acting governor solely based on having higher chivalry. That Dread governor could be outstanding at managing a city, but automatically gets replaced by some kid coming of age/getting educated, or any lesser talent that happens to coexist in the same settlement. It's like having a built-in bias against evil characters.

What about using a different axis altogether... say something like Acumen/Fearsome that reflects aptitude rather than good/evil? Chivalry (or whatever it would be changed to in text\shared.txt) could instead be attached to traits such as GoodAdministrator, GoodTrader, GovernorInclination, and anything that increases public order. That way there's no conflict, both for the careful human and the careless AI, when it comes to the game automatically selecting a governor. Dread (or equivalent) would still have the benefit of causing fear on the battlefield. And, I think it would better reflect someone who can create public order - perhaps by demonstration of force - but who is not as adept at dealing with the administrative tasks of being a governor.

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Originally Posted by Captain Conando

That sounds like a good solution so long as there is only one general to a settlement. But - correct me if I'm wrong here - it's hardcoded to select the acting governor solely based on having higher chivalry. That Dread governor could be outstanding at managing a city, but automatically gets replaced by some kid coming of age/getting educated, or any lesser talent that happens to coexist in the same settlement. It's like having a built-in bias against evil characters.

What about using a different axis altogether... say something like Acumen/Fearsome that reflects aptitude rather than good/evil? Chivalry (or whatever it would be changed to in text\shared.txt) could instead be attached to traits such as GoodAdministrator, GoodTrader, GovernorInclination, and anything that increases public order. That way there's no conflict, both for the careful human and the careless AI, when it comes to the game automatically selecting a governor. Dread (or equivalent) would still have the benefit of causing fear on the battlefield. And, I think it would better reflect someone who can create public order - perhaps by demonstration of force - but who is not as adept at dealing with the administrative tasks of being a governor.

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This might be a very good idea but before going into details, can someone confirm that chivalry is the main factor when selecting a governor?

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Originally Posted by Fair Prince

This might be a very good idea but before going into details, can someone confirm that chivalry is the main factor when selecting a governor?

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I believe it is either chivalry or traits that offer the highest population growth rate. But the effects of chivalry on population can be toned down and I think AI is relatively random in what governors it chooses so only would matter for players. A couple turns of the wrong governor shouldn't make a huge difference. If we make them represent different things as governors that is fine but it still makes 1 line relatively useless as a governor in that case but the battle effects are hard coded.

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Originally Posted by Ichon

But the effects of chivalry on population can be toned down and I think AI is relatively random in what governors it chooses so only would matter for players. A couple turns of the wrong governor shouldn't make a huge difference.

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I probably should have mentioned that I prefer using an altered settlement mechanics file, and that did play into that idea. I don't like the idea of chivalry and local popularity impacting settlement growth, especially over fertility, farm upgrades, health, and even trade. So, I like setting the (SPF_) growth factor to have 0 sensitivity to governor's influence. I'm also not a fan of how chivalry is obtained. It doesn't make sense to lower taxes for a little while, and then expect that to have an impact years/decades later. The same applies to releasing prisoners.

I generally agree that having the wrong governor temporarily shouldn't make a huge difference. Though, it might be a significant factor for small AI factions. I've frequently seen the AI have multiple characters in the same settlement when they're down to one/two regions. For the player, it doesn't tank the economy, but it is annoying, especially from a roleplaying perspective. This could just be my style of play being a factor, but my education center(s) also tend to be the most developed/profitable in general; and, I sometimes use more than one general on border settlements.

Announcement

As probably most of you know, SSTAIP was originally supposed to be one of the pillars of my ambitious historical work, but was put on hold until the Stainless Steel Map Adjustment Project is completed. The new map is now good as done, but that project escalated in a way I wasn't expecting, featuring new factions, units and even traits & ancillaries. The progress is definitely impressive and although the latter features were supposed to be part of this project, they are now an integral part of SSMAP, and there's clearly no point in taking out those changes and migrating them to this work.

Considering that SSTAIP would ultimately heavily depend on the new map, I decided to merge it into SSMAP and close down this separate project for good. The suggestions that were posted here will of course be kept and will be realized in the future.

Thanks again to everyone who contributed to this work!